Savage Enfield

[Brian Dick]

I still have two Savage No.4Mk.1 rifles, sn's 0C160, (H&H conv'n to No.4T less telescope), and 5C2548, (straight service rifle). Both have all the Mk.1 cocking piece and stamped/fabricated Mk.II front sight protector. Both rifles are factory original and comprised of all Savage parts and birch woodwork. My uneducated guess is that milled front sight protectors and hinged upper bands were not used in Savage production but I could be wrong. I've at least a hundred Savage No.4's through here and maybe twenty or so of those were Mk.1 and not Mk.1*.

[Mk VII]

I have been doing some research in the British archives on this and other points and while I am busy with another project at present, hopefully that will publish early next year and I hope to be able to turn my attention to this. At present I will say that:-
A telegram from the British Purchasing Commission in August 1941 says that Savage is aiming at an eventual production rate of 2000 per day on a double shift.
A telegram dated 11th Sept 1941 says that Savage will complete few rifles in September due largely to non-delivery of machine tools and that they expect to produce 1100 in Oct and 2200 in Nov. (these figures were later revised downwards)
A later document in my possession dated Dec. 3rd says that Savage production for Nov. 1941 was nil, due to production difficulties, and another telegram dated 6th Jan. 1942 says the number accepted by inspectors in December was 1325. At this point Savage expected to produce 1500 in January and 3500 in February and 7500 in March.
In a letter dated May 20th 1944, Mr F.E. Robinson, Special Advisor to the MoS Mission, mentions attending the millionth rifle ceremony at Savage and implies that this was very recent (Skennerton notes it occurred on the 18th).

A hand-written document in the file drawn up in 1946 on receipts of smallarms from the USA notes the total of No.4's sent as 1,193,136 of which 46,678 were lost in transit.

[Seaspriter]

A telegram from the British Purchasing Commission in August 1941 says that Savage is aiming at an eventual production rate of 2000 per day on a double shift.
A telegram dated 11th Sept 1941 says that Savage will complete few rifles in September due largely to non-delivery of machine tools and that they expect to produce 1100 in Oct and 2200 in Nov. (these figures were later revised downwards)
A later document in my possession dated Dec. 3rd says that Savage production for Nov. 1941 was nil, due to production difficulties, and another telegram dated 6th Jan. 1942 says the number accepted by inspectors in December was 1325. At this point Savage expected to produce 1500 in January and 3500 in February and 7500 in March.
In a letter dated May 20th 1944, Mr F.E. Robinson, Special Advisor to the MoS Mission, mentions attending the millionth rifle ceremony at Savage and implies that this was very recent (Skennerton notes it occurred on the 18th).

A hand-written document in the file drawn up in 1946 on receipts of smallarms from the USA notes the total of No.4's sent as 1,193,136 of which 46,678 were lost in transit.

Thanks MK VII. This certainly begins to explain the low production rate at Savage-Stevens plant. I'll bet after Dec 7th, 1941, everyone in the supply chain had a fire burning to get up to production schedules. The 46,678 rifles lost in transit must be a sublime way of saying they were aboard Liberty Ships sunk by U-boats -- 1943 was a particularly bad year for sinkings until we got the convoy and destroyer escort system in full operations.

Also, I recall reading an account on one post that an old-timer from the Savage-Stevens plant in Chicopee Massachusetts said a train ran daily to the Long Branch plant in Toronto. Apparently surplus inventory in one location was used to supply shortages in the other location. Hence the many intermingling of Canadian and American parts.

Does anyone know why Savage stopped putting date stamps on the receiver rings in mid-1943?

[Lee Enfield]

...snip...Also, I recall reading an account on one post that an old-timer from the Savage-Stevens plant in Chicopee Massachusetts said a train ran daily to the Long Branch plant in Toronto. Apparently surplus inventory in one location was used to supply shortages in the other location. Hence the many intermingling of Canadian and American parts.
...snip..

Yet another story created to sell mismatched/mixed parts guns which has become "fact" thru repetition.... and yes, it drives me crazy...

The ONLY "original condition" Long Branch No4 rifles which have Savage parts are those manufactured AFTER Savage ceased production...and most of them are sniping rifles. I've NEVER seen an "original condition" Savage No4 with Long Branch parts.

Please use one of the internet mapping systems and locate Chicopee Falls New York and follow the rails to Toronto/Mississauga Ontario

[Seaspriter]

Yet another story created to sell mismatched/mixed parts guns which has become "fact" thru repetition.... and yes, it drives me crazy...

Please use one of the internet mapping systems and locate Chicopee Falls New York and follow the rails to Toronto/Mississauga Ontario

Thanks Lee Enfield for the request. This is how a team of interested collectors collaborates to check the facts against fiction. I truly enjoy working with a team of knowledgeable experts -- good opportunity to learn.

I did check the railroad maps of the era and the story is actually quite plausible. (see http://www.schenectadyhistory.org/re...ad_map-600.jpg ) The New York Central Railroad ran from Boston through Springfield (Chicopee adjoins Springfield and surely had a spur line) right to Buffalo. The map shows a RR crossing at Niagara Falls through to Hamilton, to Mississauga on the Canadian Pacific Railroad (CPR).

However, with respect to actual pre-production interchange of parts, what's possible and what's actual are two different stories. Canadian & American cooperation was (and still is) quite prevalent in industrial matters. I don't dispute your statement, but a good investigative reporter asks: "Has anyone found any records or evidence that would confirm one story of the other. (I'm actually doing some research on Canadian-American collaboration in energy production as well as being a small-time collector of Long Branch & Savage Enfields and amateur historian, hence my interest in understanding the truth.)

Thanks for the great posts and please don't take my challenges as disrespectful -- I'm just looking to understand historical facts.
Robert