Robber fatally shot in Miami Burger King holdup

[dryheat]

[COLOR="Sienna"][/CThe robber entered wearing a ski mask. He approached a clerk, showed his gun and demanded money, said Miami police spokesman Jeff Giordano.

A customer eyed him and the two started arguing. The customer had a concealed-weapons permit and his gun -- and the two exchanged gunfire.

"the two started arguing" -don't get that. The guy had a mask, produced a gun and then the customer tried to, what, talk him out of it? Back home when a bear came into camp yoou didn't argue with the bear, yoou didn't try to educate the bear...you just shot the damn bear.OLOR]

[Art]

I've read and re read the article. I've also read the posts. I'm going to start by saying that I've been involved in several incidents that were written up in the newspapers and none of the stories were completely accurate. I once heard it said that a reporter is someone who "waits for something to happen so he can write about it wrong."

The story we know is that an armed masked robber comes into a restaurant at the busiest time of the day. He gets involved in a verbal altercation with a customer that results in a gunfight.

My take on this is: A CHL holder is not the police, his/her job is not to confront dangerous people. This is not a case like the Suzanne Hupp Luby's incident where a nutwad comes in shooting. It is not smart to stare down the bad guy and then argue with him. Let the guy take the money and leave.

The only good thing about the outcome is the recidivism rate has been lowered since one more stupid thief won't trouble society again. The CHL holder is badly shot up and he is very fortunate no innocent bystanders were injured or killed. His hinie would truly be in a sling if anyone, especially a child, had been hit by a stray bullet.

As to having enough gun to end a fight quickly. There is no handgun that will guarantee that except with a central nervous system hit in the neck or higher. I know of plenty of incidents where multiple hits from everything, up to and including a .44 magnum didn't incapacitate an assailant quicikly, or at least not quickly enough.

One of the principles in knife defense is that if someone comes at you with a knife you will be cut even if you win. The same thing with gufights with pistols at short range. There is an excellent chance of being shot in a shortrange gunfight even if you win. Just something else to think about.

[Jim K]

Unless the robber showed some indication that he was about to shoot, either at the customer or at the clerk, the customer should not have drawn his gun. He could have been killed or could have killed or seriously wounded an innocent person. Even so, and even if he is exonerated by the state, he could still face a wrongful death lawsuit if he was not directly threatened. It could be argued that no one was in danger until the customer argued with the robber and then drew a gun.

Even police officers will not take a chance on opening fire under those circumstances for those reasons.

Jim

[2571]

This POS holdup man comes in with a ski mask and a gun and announces a robbery.

Why do you assume the armed citizen is wrong? Why don't you assume the POS is wrong for being there to commit a crime, for jeopardizing little kids and innocent $7 an hour employees; that the honest guy is completely in the right and justified in wasting the POS?

Y'all are too influenced by left-wing liberal, factually mistaken, wrong-thinking media reporters and their knee jerk tolerance for predatory criminal conduct.

Tell me, where do you buy a ski mask in FL? This dork was intent on committing a violent crime -- he was the sole and proximate cause of his own demise.

And, good riddance. End of rant.

-30-

[John L. Lucci]

This POS holdup man comes in with a ski mask and a gun and announces a robbery.

Why do you assume the armed citizen is wrong? Why don't you assume the POS is wrong for being there to commit a crime, for jeopardizing little kids and innocent $7 an hour employees; that the honest guy is completely in the right and justified in wasting the POS?

Y'all are too influenced by left-wing liberal, factually mistaken, wrong-thinking media reporters and their knee jerk tolerance for predatory criminal conduct.

Tell me, where do you buy a ski mask in FL? This dork was intent on committing a violent crime -- he was the sole and proximate cause of his own demise.

And, good riddance. End of rant.

-30-

Uh No. Unfortunately, CHL carry is dictated by state law and there is usually some part of the code that covers scenarios such as this. Yes, logic would infer that the perp was looking for trouble, but the law dictates how a CHL holder may handle the situation as there are usually other parties present whose interests under the law must also be considered. For example, children not only are they at risk in this sort of scenario for getting caught in the crossfire, but what of the psychological trauma of watching someone being shot and dying? Would this be something you would want your kid spontaneously experiencing without your guidance beforehand?

I understand your frustration and your rant, but there is a bigger picture to this that has to be understood..

[Rick Gushman]

Art, I agree with everything you have stated. However, the point I was attempting to make relative to using a suitably effective handgun for defense is that if you don't use one that is adequately powerful, you run a VERY good chance of being injured or killed in a confrontation with a beligerent armed assailant. If you don't like the odds of a gunfight with a powerful handgun, just figure what the odds are with a pipsqueak handgun. Rick

[Art]

...and I agree with you in principle Rick, which is why my carry gun is a Model 640 with 110 gr. .357's in it.

I think a person should carry the most powerful pistol he/she can control.

[Dan Wilson]

you better have a weapon effective enough to put your adversary down quickly

In other words make sure your packing something better than a cheesy 9mm!!
45 acp will drop em almost every time.

Dan

[Dan Wilson]

Jim
If he is found justified by the cops (very likely) then state law prohibits ANY retaliatory legal action by the skumballs family.

The Castle Doctrine laws (at least in FL) are really sweet

Dan

[Dan Wilson]

I like my 45acp, it throws a lot of Kinetic energy into your target with a 230 grain slug BUT it wont over travel, and will readily stop when it hits something.

Dan