Criterion No4 barrel

[mike16]

its NOT excessive loads. If it was Why fix it by replacing the barrel?

I don't do excessive loads

its the looser chamber tollerances of the No.4 mk2's.

Been searching for Remington brass but its always out of stock.

any way.... Yea ....could have bought 3 of them at any point up to just before Christmas.

[Brian Dick]

There is something else wrong that's causing you to get only three reloads in a late issue No.4Mk.2 chamber. I've never had that problem and I've been reloading the .303 British since I was 16 years old, (I'm 51 now). The worst I've ever seen is 4 or 5 and that was using full length sized, old brass, (WWII dated WRA and Dominion), loaded to service specs in a well used, 1943 Long Branch No.4. I suggest you look at the brass you're using now and the method you're using to resize it. Rim thickness could be a factor too. Stop blaming the rifles. It's modern mythology that ALL the chambers in service Lees regardless of vintage are that oversized or "huge" as posted earlier. You might encounter one that falls into that category but I'd bet if you inspect it with the correct gauges, you'll find it worn beyond the acceptable limits. The market here is flooded with rifles that have been very well used so it's to be expected just the same as as it would with a US 1903, M1 Rifle or any vintage military firearm. There can be variance in good condition barrels too, especially in wartime production rifles from multiple manufacturers on two continents, (maybe three continents but I'm not sure the South Africans made barrels during wartime). I've had and shot quite a few used Lees over the years and the loosest chamber I've seen was still fine if you fire formed and neck sized the brass. I guarantee that if these new barrels are made to SAAMI instead of the original MoD spec, it's going to cause problems. Many are going to want to use receivers that are problematic to start with and possibly worn past the point of no return. Those who think that a new barrel to tighter SAAMI specs is going to fix those problems are simply wrong. It ain't going to happen. There are reasons these rifles were designed the way they are as original. Reloaders expecting to get 10+ reloads in the rimmed .303 or most other rimmed cartridges for that matter with full service spec loadings are living in dreamland anyhow in my humble opinion. As far as a time frame on the barrel production, the few of us here that are trying to help Criterion along have no control whatsoever as to time frame for production barrels. They are a good company and are trying to get it right. Make sure you take notice of the advice offered by our reloading friends in New Zealand, Australia, England, South Africa and Canada. Most that I know had never seen or heard all the absolute crap concocted here in the USA regarding loose chambers and bad headspace in the Lee platform until the internet age came upon us. I fear that many will never change their way of thinking either after 20+ years in the trade reading it and listening to it. I'll continue to try. My steel helmet is close by too! INCOMING!!!!

[ssj]

I run 46.5gr ADI 2209 with RP (Remington) brass and Lee collet dies - I am up to about 8 reloads in my No.4 with a standard chamber. The 2209 feels softer and is slightly lower pressure than 2208. Worth a try for case life problems.

or Ihave read

I am in that sort of order or a bit more 10+ with 2208 and I also use the Lee neck collect die. Several people have commented or I have read that the 2209 might have better accuracy so its something I am going to try in the future for sure. I just need to get the best out of the 2208 first then try the 2209.

---------- Post added at 03:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:39 PM ----------

"its the looser chamber tolerances of the No.4 mk2's" is this documented? can you point me at teh URL/reference? Everything I have read suggests the the mk2s were generally far better made than the mk1s, even showing a slight accuracy improvement. Certainly the 3 no4 mk2s I have are well very machined and finished.

[Calif-Steve]

The Dealers Warehouse in Modesto, California has boxes of new/used No. 4 barrels. Not sure why Criterion even wants to make new barrels. I'm sure Criterion will make a nice barrel, but real No. 4 barrels are not hard to find and certainly not expensive, either.

[Peter Laidler]

Not being a reloader Brian but an Armourer and engineer, I can't disagree with anything that you say. But it seems as if we're going away from the point of this thread and new made replacement barrels. You all need to listen in............... A new barrel will NOT cure a knackered No4 body. If you cannot CHS your knackered barrel No4 with size 3 bolthead, then fitting a new barrel ain't going to fix it either. I might be stating the bleedin obvious here but CHS for a rimmed round is the gap from the REAR FACE of the barrel to the face of the bolt head.

On that basis, you can screw the barrel in a bit more to close up the gap if you like BUT THE BODY IS STILL KNACKERED! (and it'll be getting progressively worse as you are breaking into the hardened locking surfaces)

[CINDERS]

I agree with Peter and not professing any of his or others knowledge on such goings on if the action is knackered and you do screw the barrel in further which my gunsmith said usually one thread to line up the extractor slot you cannot take half a thread from the barrels chamber end.
Anyway you will only push the thing so far and me being in safety well your playing with a catastrophic failure that will be coming straight through your face thats it pure and simple I am a realist and keep things KISS bin it there are plenty more in the world without problems. About 4~5 reloads at Full power Mil spec loads for a Rem case out of my No.4s

[Rwsgunsmithing]

The Dealers Warehouse in Modesto, California has boxes of new/used No. 4 barrels. Not sure why Criterion even wants to make new barrels. I'm sure Criterion will make a nice barrel, but real No. 4 barrels are not hard to find and certainly not expensive, either

For having box's of them, they don't have a single item for the No4 on there website.

[RobD]

Calif-Steve, re: The Dealers Warehouse in Modesto, California. Are you sure they have new No 4 barrels?
Nobody has seen a new No 4 barrel in the UK for a long time now. Because of this, Armalon in UK have recently begun to make new No 4 barrels, and they also sell No 4's which have been rebarrelled by them. Given the problems which DIY re-barreling might entail (I don't understand all the technicalities in the posts above) buying a re-barrelled No 4 from Armalon would be an attractive proposition for someone in the UK.

[Brian Dick]

The owner of The Dealer's Warehouse is a friend of mine. I'll talk to him to see if he's holding out on me but I doubt it. He does have some used barrels complete with the front halves of the receivers still installed as the receivers were just cut through the mag well. I've sent folks there for replacements in the past and installed several over the years with good success but they don't fill the niche market for new barrels.

[bigduke6]

Calif-Steve, re: The Dealers Warehouse in Modesto, California. Are you sure they have new No 4 barrels?
Nobody has seen a new No 4 barrel in the UK for a long time now. Because of this, Armalon in UK have recently begun to make new No 4 barrels, and they also sell No 4's which have been rebarrelled by them. Given the problems which DIY re-barreling might entail (I don't understand all the technicalities in the posts above) buying a re-barrelled No 4 from Armalon would be an attractive proposition for someone in the UK.

Thats a good point Rob but why pay top dollar when you can still get No4 for a reasonable price in the UK, plenty about with plenty of meat left in the barrel, also some sporterized ones with full length barrel (just need patience and keep looking)

I know of two No4,s for sale in my club, both around £350 IIRC, one an LB complete with a PH or similar rear sight, bore is like new, the other a No4 Mk1 for £300 but is negotiable I can vouch for this as I sold it to the guy in question and imported it from a guy on this forum......

To me the only folk who I know would pay for a new barrel would be the ones who shoot rare or collectors rifles such as trials rifles and trials and regular No4 (T)'s.... for a standard No4 I really can't see the point unless its got sentimental value........ but thats just my opinion.