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  1. #51
    Legacy Member Kev G's Avatar
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    Sten collector PM me if you want a few odd copies of 1939/40 Irish artillery orders.(appologies interupting this interesting thread)

    As an aside anyone thinking of contacting the Irish Military Archives with their own questions or inquiries had better forget it.
    In my research (not rifle related) your only option realisticly is to go over there.Even 8 years ago there estimated reply time was about 2 years !......and it hasn't got any better.

    ATB KG

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    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  3. #52
    Legacy Member Frederick303's Avatar
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    well judging by the counter, folks are still interested in this, so here are some we-writes of some old posts I put up on Gunboards back in the August 2013 time frame. The following is the amalgamation of the data collected to 4 April 2015 on the Irish Army and their use of the Enfield rifle.



    The Irish SMLE story, part 1, 1919 to 1925
    By Frederick R Salberta



    The Free State army was organized on 16 January 1922, after the signing of the peace treaty. “Independence” was formally declared on 3 May 1922. By independence Ireland, other than Ulster became a self-governing dominion of the British Empire, with no representation in the UK parliament. At the same time they recognized the King as sovereign. The UK retained control over several treaty ports and the 6 counties of that made up Ulster or Northern Ireland.

    As there were significant portions of the IRA that did not agree to the treaty, specifically the division of Ireland, being in the empire, the treaty ports and their fervent desire for a strictly republican form of government, it seemed war was imminent between two factions of the IRA. The pro treaty people went on to become the Free State army, while the opposition remained the IRA. Because the UK wanted no part of the conflict but wanted the IRA put down, they agreed to supply arms to the newly formed Irish free state army.

    The first 100 SMLE MK III rifles were sent to Ireland provisional troops in early February of 1922. Shipments halted briefly in March due to IRA seizure of English supplied arms, to be resumed after April 16th. There was also the suspicion (subsequently verified) that Michael Collins was supplying IRA units in Northern Ireland with U.K. supplied arms to use against the RUC and Ulster “Specials”. The UK took a dim view of this. It was after this break that the supplied rifles have new unique serial numbers applied and the old serial numbers lined out. This work was all done, in so far as examination of rifles markings allow, at Enfield Lock. This is verified by the appearance of a additional examiners mark not seen on rifles that doe not go through the facility.

    The rifles supplied form from stocks on hand and as such LSA, BSA, SSA, Enfield and even the occasional pre 1918 Lithgowicon and Ishapore rifle show up with the Enfield examiners marks and the new serial numbers applied (more on the new numbers later in the article). A lot of SSA rifles and an occasional NRF rifle make their appearance as well.

    Between January 16 and June of 1922 Englandicon provided the Irish Free State with 11,900 rifles, 4200 revolvers and 79 machine guns.

    By June of 1922 the opposing IRA forces had only 6,780 rifles and a small number of machineguns, the remaining arms being made up of shotguns (between 3,000 and 6,000). Of the rifles, only a subset were Enfield Riflesicon, a few Model 71 Mausers and many 98 Mausers being among the arms used by the IRA (as well as Mauser model 95 rifles, Gras and lebel rifles and pretty much anything that the IRA could smuggle in). A sizeable quantity of GEWicon 1898 rifles were imported into Waterford in March of 1922. It is likely that there were at 1500 to 2000 Gew 98 rifles based on that incident and arms brought in by returning soldiers from WWI. The source of ant-treaty IRA SMLE rifles were three fold, some were smuggled in between 1918 and 1922, about 3,000 were taken off of retreating British troops (which were told not to provoke any incident) or taken off of newly created free state forces that did not resist in Cork county. The last source was those rifles captured in fighting from either the RIC or the other British forces during the war of independence. The exact numbers of Enfields in the above figures of 6,780 is unknown, but it is likely on the order of 3,500~to just under 4,000 rifles. Of that no more than 385 were RIC pattern. In nay case the IRA forces were badly outnumbered and outgunned.

    Interestingly in the period before the conflict broke out between the two sides, the Free State troops did an interesting weapons swap with the IRA. Because other than the first few hundred guns supplied to the Free State forces all Enfields supplied had a unique serial number applied. As such Michal Collins could not supply these arms to IRA forces operating in Ulster without the UK knowing. In fact though he was ready to combat his fellow countrymen in the south to see the treaty stick, at the same time he had not abandoned the idea of bring Ulster back into the Irish free state and was actively supporting the IRA in the north. So to get sterile arms to supply to those forces, the Irish Free State army swapped their British supplied arms with the IRA at the Dublin court house before June of 1922. The best guess is this occurred in May and that he number of arms exchanged was between 400 and 500 rifles. During this period between April of 1922 to June 28 1922 there was a lot of pre-positioning and small scale theft of arms by the two opposing forces. A careful reading of the IRA activities in Ulster in the 1922 to 1925 time period tends to indicate that any RIC carbines that Michael Collins had were set up north.

    Civil war broke out between the two sides on 28 June 1922 and with it an end to any further arms swaps. From the Start the Free Stte forces had the upper hand and to ensure this matter continued the UK continued to supply arms directly to the Free stat forces . Up to September of 1922 England provided The Irish Free State (pro treaty IRA) with 27,400 rifles, 6,606 revolvers and 249 machine guns.

    By August of 1922 20,060 of the rifles were distributed to troops, the remainders were in stores. By the end of the 1922, most all stocks of rifles had been issued out. The Free State started asking for more rifles and supplies from the UK. At the same time the Irish Free State army, made up of young recruits for the most part, showed they could not keep much of the stock of arms they had in working order. As such the UK seems to have decided that the remaining arms to be supplied would be older less capable arms.

    In between the fall of 1922 and the end of 1923 some quantity of arms were turned over to the Free State so it could fight the IRA in the civil war. Numbers of rifles delivered unknown but a review of the pictures of Free state troops, published figures of rifles stocks and serial number studies indicate that about 10,000 SMLE MK I*** rifles were delivered at this time, along with a small stock of SMLE MK III rifles (or the SMLE rifles had been supplied after September of 1922 and before the spring of 1923). All had new serial numbers applied. The deliveries did include 9-18 pounders and limited stocks of shells, as well as numbers of Morris armoured cars. It is most likely that Enfield rifles were in these shipments in or around mid 1923, June of 1923 being the best guess, based on the various parliamentary commentaries that have come to light. It would seem after this event that no further rifles were supplied by Great Britain, as it was seen that the Irish Free State was going to be able to subdue the Anti-treaty faction. By the end of 1923 this was largely the state of affairs in Ireland, even as the civil war became a bit more ugly with bombings, and reprisals between the Free State forces and the IRA getting ever uglier.

    When the IRA went underground in 1924, they told their man to dump or stash their arms, as to be caught with arms by that time was a death sentence for the mere possession of un permitted arms. Free State army captured many of the arms used by the IRA by 1925, by digging them up or searching building, tip-offs on the location, as well as torture to procure the location. Most recovered arms were in poor condition. After the end of the Irish Civil war large quantities of captured arms were dumped in the Irish Sea. Documented arms were captured pistols and revolvers of non-standard pattern (not .455 cal). Though not documented, the lack of any sales records indicate Mauser rifles and other odd ball arms were destroyed at this time (other than a small numbers retained for various purposes). It would seem that the Irish Free State sought to only retain those arms that were SMLE pattern, though there were small stocks of CLLE and possibly Ross rifles retained.

    Of the 27,500 renumbered SMLE rifles supplied to the Irish army, approximately 500 were supplied to the IRA in exchange for unmarked rifles by in July 1922. Of these 500 rifles ~200 to 300 were destroyed in the siege of the Dublin court house and subsequent fighting in Dublin between the two sides.

    In 1925 the Irish Free State Army had 42,500 rifles on hand, of which only 8,000 were considered first line (serviceable). This number does not include all of the rifles turned in or captured by the army in the civil war, many of which were not Lee Enfield pattern rifles. It’s likely all of the non-standard arms were dumped at sea, as it is documented was done with the pistols but that evidence is not sure. Also supposedly used were limited numbers of Ross Mk III rifles, (as it is known that at least 21 were captured by the IRA between 1919 and 1921) though no pictures exist or any surplus sales record. A small number of CLLE rifles show up in stores in WWII, though where and how they came into the possession of the Free State remains unknown.

    Given the known facts we can estimate the Irish Free states stock of arms in 1925, as follows:

    SMLE MK III/III* with new added serial numbers ~26,700 to 27,200
    SMLE MK III with existing serial numbers ~5,400 to 5,900
    SMLE MK I***, second line condition: ~9,800 to 9,950
    Ross rifles, RIC carbines, Mausers, retained ~100 rifles (??)
    Total stocks ~42,500

    Serial numbers: So now you are wondering, what about the newly applied serial numbers. What were they? Well here is the code, published first on Gun boards in August of 2013:

    The new SMLE MK III serial numbers started with N1 , went to the N999, then to O1000 to O1999, then P2000 to P2999 and so on until you get to M25000. Now when they got to M25999, instead of using a new letter they just continued the series up to around M27500. The serial number sampled to date range from N17 to M27489, so there may be some numbers above that have not been found yet. That is the key to identifying an Irish SMLE MKIII or III* that was OFFICALLY supplied to the Irish free state by the British in 1921 to 1923 time frame. Not the FF stamp, which comes later. Some quantities of rifles, between 100 and most likely under 1000 were also supplied with the original serial numbers intact between February of 1921 and March of 1921.

    Now the code for the SMLE MK I***: There are 3 serial ranges, ER, CR and G. ER rifles are in original SMLE MK I*** shape (many ex navy rifles) CR rifles have had the MK I*** forend inletted for the MK III rear handguard, have a MK III rear sight on the existing MK I rear sight base and have a MK III or MK I modified to MK II shape rear handguard. G refers to rifles that were wire wrapped for grenade launching use. Here the official records do not exist for how many were sent out but it would seem based on the current research that ~10,000 or just short of that were sent over around June of 1923. That is by no means exact, but the best guess working with the data that does exist.

    The serial number ranges found to date in a sample size of 210 rifles is as follows:
    ER rifles, ER 1 to 9600
    CR rifles CR 1 to 4060
    G rifles G1 to G2185 (supposedly seen up to G 3000, no actual samples documented)

    Now an observant chap will note this adds up to more than 10,000 rifles. From taking the serial numbers and running them through a bit of statistical analysis, it would seem the serial numbers were run concurrent, rather than in separate sequence. That is the serial numbers started with 1 and run through 9600, with the CR and ER rifles being mixed in. It would seem the first 400 of the G rifles had only the G serial number applied, there was no lined out ER number as one finds post G538. So if this analysis is correct (and ultimately the larger the sample size gets the easier it will be to prove or disprove this hypothesis) the serial numbers run as follows:

    1-9600 ER and CR prefixes, no over lapping numbers (less one or two mistakes, none seen to date). The numbers seem to run in blocks, such as there are very few low number CR rifles under CR 478, where as there are a lot of ER numbers in this range. The opposite pattern seems to exist between CR500 to about serial number 4060, after which no CR serial numbers show up. Between CR/ER 4060 and ER 9600 no CR number show up at all. There are a mix of ER numbers in the ER 39 through ER 4060 block. The G numbers run from G1 (which was actually a NRF MK III* rifle) to G377 with the possibility of this number running as high as G537. Where the rifles stopped being marked as G only and became reworked ER re-stamped as G rifles seems to occur between G 377 and G538. Between G538 and G2185 the rifles seem to have been reworked later as the ER numbers are canceled out and a new G number applied. Simply stated the data base of G marked rifles is only 33 in number, too few to allow a better estimation.

    What is known about the non-re-numbered SMLE MKIII rifles is very vague. Presumably a small number were commercial models, as it is known in 1914 at the start of the war there were limited numbers of commercial models bought up by the volunteer movement (fellows that did the Easter uprising and then became the IRA). Around 3,000 to 3,500 of the rifles were likely arms take off of the British soldiers by the IRA when they pulled out of Ireland in the spring of 1922. Between 100 and 1000 of the first rifles provided to the Irish Free State had no new serial numbers applied. The remaining numbers were likely arms that were taken, captured or smuggled in during the fighting between 1919 and the end of 1923 when the IRA essentially folded.

    The above is based on published sources and examination of rifles in the data base I have been building. As of today it includes over 1500 Irish linked arms, with 1461 of them being Enfields of one pattern or another. Of that figure, 161 are SMLE MK III, 210 are SMLE MK I*** and 102 are RIC carbines. Other than the theory about the SMLE MKI*** rifles serial number ranges and assignment everything above can be traced back to a written source and for the most part not conjecture but based on the best reading of the evidence to date.

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  6. #53
    Legacy Member Frederick303's Avatar
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    The Irish SMLE, part 2, 1924 to 1939:

    By Frederick R Salberta,

    In 1924 at the end of the Irish civil war the material in the hands of the Irish Free State forces stood in very poor repair. The cause for this was multifold; first the Free State army raised in the 1921 to 1923 civil war period was primarily made up of young men with no military service during the Great War. This included many of the NCO’s. The fighting in the south and west of Ireland was in areas subject to frequent rain and high humidity. The army as set up in 1921 lacked a well thought out logistical system; during the civil war supplies were short in all regards. Oil, cleaning materials and other such material was improvised. The result was few of the rifles were cleaned or maintained as they should have been, with many barrels rusted out and warped or broken forends being a common problem.

    For the arms captured from the IRA this was doubly true. Many of these arms had the bolts removed and discarded, or had been cached out of doors at the end of the war. These arms when recovered were for the most part, completely unserviceable.

    As a result , of the ~42,500 rifles of .303 caliber held by the Irish free state army in the 1925 inventory, only 8,000 of these rifles were considered to be in serviceable shape. Many of the rifles remaining might well have been serviceable but required minor repairs, barrel scouring, etc. The remainder were either considered to be obsolete (captured RIC carbines, Ross rifles) or in need of serious repair. Ireland needed to refurbish its arms stock, as the immediate post war period had a formal requirement for a standing army and reserve forces of ~17,000 troops.

    It would appear the first effort to rectify the arms shortage occurred in 1924, between January and June of that year when a number of arms were sent over to BSA for rebuild. The exact number is unknown but small, as only one arm with a barrel date from this period has come to light. The serial number on the one known sample falls in the Irish serial number range (see part one). This rifle has no FF marking on it but BSA proof marks indicating it had its barrel replaced in between July of 1923 and June of 1924.

    After this initial rebuild by BSA, the Britishicon colonial office/War office likely took over relations and offered the Irish Free State army the option of sending these arms to Enfield lock to be rebuilt as needed. The Irish Free State was part of the commonwealth and had the same privileges as any other self-governing state of the realm. However, whereas most if not all of the previous military stores provided to Ireland during the civil war had been provided gratis, after the end of the war the Free State, as any other self-governing dominion, was expected to pay for the military stores it obtained from the British War office (BWO). The war in Ireland had destroyed a lot of material, including railroad stock and bridges, infrastructure projects that demanded much more attention that war damaged military stores.

    In October of 1924 the Quarter master branch of the Irish Free State army established an ordnance sub section in Clancy barracks. This seems likely to be the first time at which a regular service was established for maintenance of ordnance stores, including rifles. It is known that in late 1924 all arms were classified, and those nonstandard arms such as lebels, Gew98s and such were dumped at sea. Other than small samples of nonstandard arms, only .303 cal SMLE MK I*** and MK III were retained for issue. Once created the handling maintenance and repair of the Irish army rifle stock was conducted at a high level of professionalism. Samples from this period show signs of wear and use, but not abuse.

    Between June of 1924 and 1926 no FF marked or barrel dated samples have come to light, so what was done or not done with regard to refurbishment is unknown at this time. Prior to 1926 any barrel replaced would have caused the rifle serial number to be altered to the barrel number, but if such work was done it would be expected that the rifles font would be identical to the reworked rifles sent over in the 1921 to 1923 time frame, but with a barrel date later than 1922. No samples have come to light so no concrete statements can be made regarding what was done in this period, though a number of arms with Irish features have been examined that might actually be Free State issue, there are simply no markings that indicate they are Irish.

    Starting in late 1925 contacts were issued to Enfield Locke to re-barrel rifles that had worn out bores. The first dated re-barreled rifles appear with 1926 dated barrels. Refurbishment of the rifles seems to have been limited to the barrel replacement. Now when the barrel was replaced, the new component was marked with an FF in a circle, for reasons that seem to be lost in the midst of time. It may well be that this was to indicate rifles that had new barrels, but in all cases the ordnance marks and proofs indicate the work was done at Enfield Locke. The most likely explanation is that an Irish or designated inspector made the mark, to indicate the barrel was changed and accepted. So the FF marking is not so much a property marking as a marking indicating the barrel was changed out, inspected and had to be paid for.

    Furthermore the FF mark does not appear to be applied after re-blue, but prior. An examination of known Irish FF marked barreled actions that were not rebuilt into complete rifles shows all such rifles had the action and barrel blued as a last step, and the FF mark was applied prior to this operation. So the FF mark had to have been applied in the UK

    So Irish rifles that have not gone back to the UK for re-barreling will not have the FF mark. On the rifles examined without the FF mark, but within the Irish issued serial number ranges, the barrel dates noted have ranged from 1916 to 1922, none later.

    Because the SMLE MK I*** rifles used a different barrel, Enfield lock was not prepared to replace these barrels. No record exists that shows any barrel on any of the ER, CR or G barrels was replaced post 1915. As a result once a SMLE MK I*** rifle became worn it was not useful except as a source of parts to keep other SMLE MK I*** rifles in service. Pictures from the period do not show significant issue of these SMLE MK I*** rifles between the end of the civil war and late 1939.

    Based on sampling of Irish serial range examples, contracts were issued that resulted in rifles with re-barrel dates of 1926, 1927, 1928 and 1930. Based on the Irish military archives it is known no contracts for Enfield Locke work were issued in 1929 and likely 1931, though in 1931 the first 33 sniper rifles P 14(T) were purchased from the UK. Also in September of 1931 the ordnance service formally split from the quartermaster branch, and was known as the Army Ordnance Service after that. Records from that period on relating to rifles become somewhat clearer, with the first contact issued by the army ordnance service to Enfield Locke for rifle rebuild occurring in 1932 for delivery in late 1932/1933.

    By the fall of 1932 the ordnance stocks stood as follows:
    Rifles: 42,500: of this quantity 17,600 had been refurbished since the close of the civil war in 1924. Not all refurbished rifles required barrel changes. The total stock of usable rifles was on the order of ~20,600 rifles (Inventory early 1935). This would indicate some number of the 8,000 rifles that were serviceable in 1925 went through refurbishment.

    No record can be found for 1934. Through this period (1929 to 1935) the records indicate the Army was very short of funds and not in any way capable of funding all of the projects that were required to keep the armies stock of weapons in tip-top shape.

    While not clear prior to 1932, it would seem likely by no later than 1935 that the rifles were not sent back to Enfield lock as complete assemblies, but as barreled actions alone. The work done by Enfield Locke seems to have been restricted, no later than 1934 to replacing the barrel. It is likely this state of affairs existed prior, but it cannot be ascertained with any degree of accuracy if complete rifles were rebuilt or not or what date prior the shift occurred. Certainly none of the reworked rifles examined seem to show any signs that the bolts were included with the re-barreling , as the bolts all seem to have been fitted to the barreled action at a later time, based on the very crude filing and re-marking of the serial numbers on the bolt body.

    Based on manuals issued by the Irish Army Ordnance service in 1932, it would appear that the Irish army Ordnance service could do any of the work required of a typical base workshop. They could fit forends, fit bolts, repair stocks and pretty much all of the work required to refurbish a rifle other than barrel replacement. While not by any means sure, it would appear that the barrels were fitted in the UK only, as the rifles examined show Enfield lock inspectors post 1925 markings on the barrels and some actions. The evidence found to date indicates the Irish Ordnance service was very parsimonious, outsourcing the very minimum of work they could not accomplish and that had to be paid for.

    No contract was issued in 1934 or 1936. 1935 and in 1937 saw additional contacts issued , though as with many of the other years the quantities seem to be small for 1935. Based on a perusal of the contract recorded published by Ian Skennertonicon, the likely sum of rifles re-barreled in 1935 by Enfield lock for the Irish Free State army was 200 with the contacts for 1937 totaling 1,280 rifles. Because the contacts as listed when issued and not when complete, issuing quantity does not necessarily indicate the quantity actually completed.

    In 1938 a much larger contract was issued, for ~2,800 rifles. The barreled actions sent over this year seem to have had a large number of both the actions and the barrel replaced. In those cases where the action was replaced, the old serial number was added to the new action, and both the barrel and the action received the FF mark. In all cases it seems the FF marking was applied to the barrel and action body before re-bluing of same.

    It would also appear that there may have been a number of the non-English supplied actions sent over, or new barreled actions were purchased, as in this year a number of serial numbered actions come to light that have non-standard serial numbers (that is out of the expected Irish serial number sequence) but have the FF marked barrels and actions. It is likely a lot of these actions might have been the rifles captured from the British during the rebellion, or smuggled in during the civil war.. Another possibility is that the Irish sent over actions that would not gauge correctly and as such those action bodies had to be replaced, which accounts for the non-Irish serial ranges. The exact reason for the large number of 1938 FF marked barrels and actions is unknown at this time. These details are not clear; no conclusion can be made on the assembled evidence to date

    The year 1938 also saw the delivery of the 79 BSA reworked pattern 1914 sniper rifles with BSA scopes, giving the Irish army a full stock of 112 sniper rifles. These 79 rifles were marked with a FF marking on the rear sight base for the telescope sight. The previous 33 P14 rifles delivered in 1931 do not have this feature and also have the original optic (PPCo), not the BSA model copy. That observation is based on exactly one rifle which had a clear province from being sold by interarms in 1961, but lacking any Irish markings whatsoever.

    By 1939 the world stage was heating up and the UK military facilities were not able to supply the Irish with any more workshop time. Ireland realized they were very short and attempted to purchase arms, with little luck. It appears that a small contact t was executed with BSA, as a number of Irish serial number sequenced rifles have come to light with BSA commercial proofs that indicate barrel replacement between June of 1939 and June of 1940. Given that the war started in September it is likely that these rifles were reworked between June of 1939 and the end of August 1939. After September 3 1939, no additional commercial contacts were allowed by the War office.

    So in September of 1939 the Irish army found itself still with a stock of ~ 42,500 rifles, of which 112 were P14 sniper rifles and 24,700SMLE MKI*** and MKIII in serviceable shape. The remainder, ~17,688 was either cord worn, badly worn or otherwise unserviceable. Around 5000 of these weapons were SMLE MK I*** rifles. From indirect sources it seems some numbers of these arms were able to be brought back into service by minor repairs and classified as EY rifles. But that story really belongs to the WWII period, which is sufficiently long to require its own post.

    The above is about as complete as I can be with the information at this time. Hopefully none of the above is grossly wrong. Be aware as in the past that when new documents come to light it may well change interpretation of the facts. As always make free use of this material, but please be good enough to render credit to author if you post it elsewhere. A lot of time has gone into this research, much of it frustrating. All rights reserved etc….

    Note on above: When the phrase “appears” is used; this indicates that no documentation has come to light; the conclusions are based on examination of the rifles sampled to date. If the body of the text seems to be definitive; that means I have a document indicating what is written is the case. If the phrase “likely” is used, that means there is not a direct written source for the point being made, but the supporting data seems to indicate that the statement is the most likely interpretation of the evidence collected.

    Final note: At this point there are 161 known or very likely Irish Enfield SMLE MK III rifles in the data base. Given the known imported numbers (~31,169) and the samples size of other Irish rifles of import quantity known rifles there seems to be a problem: The samples found are markedly smaller than the sample size should be. More on that in the next write up (The Irish SMLE, 1939 to 1945) and the implications.

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    Advisory Panel Patrick Chadwick's Avatar
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    Great stuff Frederick!





    More! More!

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    Legacy Member Mk VII's Avatar
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    The Home Guard in Englandicon had the same issue with .300 rifles; not much practice ammo made available.
    .303s (which had all been withdrawn from the Home Guard, [and Army static units] to be exchanged for .300s, and later Sten guns) had to be supplied in small numbers just for musketry training.

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    Legacy Member Frederick303's Avatar
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    I believe the same conditions existed with regards to ammunition; the US supplied 250 rounds per M1917 rifle, at least on the first 500,000 supplied in June of 1940.

    Not sure on the 250,000 supplied with the destroyer deal if any .300 SA was supplied.

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    Legacy Member stevebc's Avatar
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    I'm interested in the "Irish Contract", if only because it may shed some light on what happened to the several thousand 1956 No. 4 Mk. 2's that should still be out there somewhere.

    I own one, I know another fellow who owns one, have seen a picture of a third, and Skennertonicon has an illustration in his book that shows a 1956 date. Those are the only ones I'm aware of.

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    Legacy Member Frederick303's Avatar
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    According to the Irish archives, the very last dated rifle they accepted was UF55 A21266. All of the rifles in that serial range A15,xxx to A21266 seem to have been packed between June and August of 1955.

    Early on when I was collecting serial numbers I came across the following UF 55 high end/ UF56 A serial numbers:

    UF55 A 35444 Used, very good condition
    UF55 A 38104 Used, excellent Fulton regulated, in UKicon
    UF55 A 38859 Well used, replacement bolt (RAF issue) in UK

    UF56 A 401xx
    UF56 A 43413
    UF56 A 44816

    So it seems to indicate that the UF56 series starts north of 39,000 and before 40,1xx

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  18. #59
    Legacy Member stevebc's Avatar
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    Just seen over at Gunboards: UF 56 A40217

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    UF A26980 appears to have been sold straight to ParkerHale (it is so stamped, complete with SoS marks). I have some notes somewhere indicating a fair number of UF's were sold in early 56 to Gunsmiths and shooting clubs.

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