1942 Longbranch question

[Brian Dick]

I have to respectfully disagree with your assessment of the supply of wood used during Long Branch production Seaspriter although I'm sure you're correct about occasional shortages of one wood vs the other as that just makes sense. Walnut and birch were used extensively throughout wartime production. I've had all manner of wartime dates in both, 1941 -1945. They used whatever was in the pile for factory production. Some maple was used but it's much less common than birch and walnut.

You might be surprised when you get your LB "T" back. It's going to be restored back to it's former glory add it last appeared in BRITISH service and finished as such. Sincere thanks to DRP because without the excellent front pad and cheekpiece, I would have been at a loss.

[Brian Dick]

"as it last appeared"

[Seaspriter]

Thanks Brian, and I stand corrected on the wood selection, based on your handling so many Long Branch rifles. We all know how the whole history of Enfields is filled with mysteries, anomalies, and contradictions. In 1943, according to an article (below) in the Toronto newspaper, the factory ran out of the stocks of walnut. (Walnut only grows in a very narrow band of land just north of Lake Ontario (IIRC). So, if walnut reappeared in LB production in 1944-5, where did it come from? I'll speculate that it came from the U.S. where there were (and still are) ample walnut forests. Could it be that Savage was supplying walnut blanks or finished stocks to Canada -- we know they sent a lot of finished walnut to Great Britain for use for repairs.

Read the next to the last paragraph in the last column.
http://www.pbase.com/mrclark/image/93385408

I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to unscramble another set of contradictory pieces of evidence -- like Sherlock Holmes.

[Brian Dick]

Well, my favorite 1943 LB No.4 rifle which was New Zealand owned is stocked in birch so there may be some truth to the article. Additional supplies of walnut may well have come from the USA. I'm not sure about Savage-Stevens. I've never seen a Savage No.4 stocked from the factory in walnut. Some say they exist but I've had quite a few of both early and late production in the past 25 years and all were stocked in birch if factory original.

[Seaspriter]

Savage No.4 stocked from the factory in walnut

Thanks Brian, so the mystery continues. While I am only speculating here (no concrete evidence), we know a lot of Savage-Stevens walnut stocks went to the UK for use in repair. Here is a walnut repair stock on a Savage-Stevens I own (with the same initials on it as yours Brian!)

It's certainly possible (but still speculation) that some walnut blanks or formed stocks went to Long Branch. We know the New York Central Railroad went from Boston, passed Chicopee/Springfield, on to Buffalo then connected to Toronto. But speculation and evidence are two different things, so ...... is there any evidence from the day?

[Brian Dick]

I'd have to dispute the walnut wood from Savage theory. There again: I've had a lot of Savage wood through here both new and used and I've never seen one that wasn't birch. Is that buttstock marked with a Savage square or round "S" under the wrist?

[Seaspriter]

Is that buttstock marked with a Savage square or round "S" under the wrist?

Yes Brian it has a rounded "S" on the wrist (see pic -- faint but distinguishable) The walnut butt stock apparently was a replacement, placed on the rifle "12 1944," as a repair (probably D-Day invasion). The walnut is "full figured," which is typical of American Black Walnut, distinctively different from English "straight grained" walnut. The fore-stock (stamped with the last 4 digits of the receiver serial number) and handguards are original Savage-Stevens birch.

[Brian Dick]

A Savage round "S" manufacturer mark should be under the wrist close to the butt socket and stamped vertically. They were inside of a circle if memory serves. They also used a small square "S" without a box and one inside a box. I'm guessing the different marks were from different contractors who made the wood. Sorry Robert, but I don't see any of those on the bottom of that buttstock. It looks like a Long Branch or British butt to me with inspector's marks present. What is the marking closest to the butt socket stamped vertically? That's the manufacturer's mark, whatever it is. I'm not trying to be argumentative either by the way. This has all been discussed before at length. Can anyone show me a cut and dried piece of wood with a Savage "S" of any description on it that's made from walnut? I'll become a believer when I see it.

[Seaspriter]

A Savage round "S" manufacturer mark should be under the wrist close to the butt socket and stamped vertically. They were inside of a circle if memory serves. They also used a small square "S" without a box and one inside a box

Hi Brian,
I took a new photo with the vertical "S" located just below the butt socket.

[Brian Dick]

I've seen that "S" mark stamped on many SMLE and No.4 butts. I'm not sure what it is but it isn't a Savage manufacture mark. The manufacture mark is further up but I can't tell what it is.