Who is doing all the Enfield target shooting??

[Mk VII]

Lack of access to modern (and not-so-modern) firearms here has brought a resurgence of interest in .303s and similar era arms, and shooting them in competition at a fairly high standard is fairly popular. Clubs have formed for doing so. Old-style S.R.(b) shooting evolved into T.R. once the .303 era ended and gradually this has become a rich man's sport - a converted Mauser or No.4 is no longer good enough at national event level - using rich man's ammunition, despite efforts to subsidise it somewhat for the young.
Old-style .22 indoor leagues are slowly dying as the generation that was content to do that dies off or retires and indoor ranges get increasingly closed down. The only young people who are exposed to shooting are the Public schools and the cadet corps, and some will take it up after school, perhaps many years after school, but not many.

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[Colonel Enfield]

The World War I Centenary is certainly helping people rediscover the old rifles too, though it has suddenly pushed the prices up in this part of the world as people with greater wallet sizes than understanding of old rifles decide they want "one of those Anzac guns".

For what it's worth, the service rifle folks where I shoot have made a conscious decision that, at least at club level, people are welcome to use sporterised military rifles in the Service Rifle competition matches; the price of "proper" service rifles keep going up and the first exposure a lot of younger shooters have is getting a cheap sporterised .303 from somewhere (perhaps an older, licenced family member).

We figured that having them show up at the range and having people sniffing dismissively at those rifles and saying "that's not original, it can get in the sea" wasn't going to help anyone - or the shooting sports generally.

There's a few target SMLE and No 4 rifles which show up as well and for new or older shooters they're welcome to join in with the regular competition. Since we all accept the rifles are far more accurate than most of us, the emphasis is on enjoying the competition and its spirit for the most part.

Obviously if you want to shoot competitively at state or national level then you're going to need proper gear, but service shooters are well-known for being a friendly and generous lot and people are often more than happy to share guns if someone's missing an appropriate one for a match.

[Frederick303]

My real interest in Enfield shooting dates to going to the Canadian Fullbore Nationals in 1996 and 1997, New Zealand in 2000 and NSW in Australia in 2002. Between the various trips I spent many happy hors on the rages with old Enfields and it set the hook. Went from a collection of 6 Enfields (which I thought very complete with a 2 - No1 , 2- No4, 1 No 5 and a P14) to a number I do not mention... which is pretty complete. unfortunately it is next to impossible to get folks to shoot a straight Enfield match and they are simply not competitive in any current US competition venue.

There is something to be said for being directed into a limited field of competition. It does seem to keep some semblance of direction and concentration of effort, which in the free range environment of the modern shooting scene is just simply lacking. Simply stated in a field as obscure as black power antique shooting, there are the following areas:

Traditional Kentucky rifle shooting (AKA friendship Indiana)
NSSA (shooting with muskets, aka civil war style)
Long range black powder (muzzle loader and cartridge)
Silhouette black powder (same course as modern rifles)
"Chunk" shooting (blackpowder bench-rest with traditional heavy guns)
Cowboy shooting (for muzzle loader revolvers)
Black powder trap (yes there are guys that do that.)
Modern In-line black powder bench matches.

With all these competition areas, it is very hard for any one activity to get the numbers of folks that used to be directed into one or two activities.

[Patrick Chadwick]

black power antique shooting,

??? Is that a variation on silhouette shooting Frederick? Where do you find the black power antiques? And should you be shooting at antiques anyway?

unfortunately it is next to impossible to get folks to shoot a straight Enfield match

You're in the wrong country for that. Over here, the BDMP holds a yearly "Enfield-Mauser Trophy" match. 3 classes: Enfield, Swedish Mauser, Other Mausers.

---------- Post added at 12:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:05 AM ----------

With all these competition areas, it is very hard for any one activity to get the numbers of folks that used to be directed into one or two activities.

Very true. In some competition areas I find myself coming first and last, and wondering if I should bother next year. However, when next year comes I do it again, hoping that someone else will turn up, as for a couple of my antiques it is the only chance to see how they perform under competition conditions.

[Colonel Enfield]

Where do you find the black power antiques? And should you be shooting at antiques anyway?

Jokes aside, there are more genuine antique blackpowder guns floating about in still workable condition than many people think, particularly in the US. Personally I wouldn't be firing a 120+ year old gun unless I was absolutely, 110% sure of its provenance and safety to fire (for example, it had belonged to a family member or close friend AND had the OK from a knowledgable gunsmith), but from what I see on other forums, plenty of people do fire them - at targets both paper and four-legged.

I do agree there's possibly a bit too many competition categories nowadays, even for modern guns - for example, the SSAA Combined Services discipline can be divided at a basic level into "As issued or faithful reproduction", "Modified/Accurised", "Pre-1946 Sniper", "Post-1946 Sniper", "Black Powder Cartridge", "Training Rifle" and I think there's one or two others as well.

Within those categories there's different sub-categories which include categories for carbines, long-barrel rifles, antique rifles (musket and cartridge), modern "tactical" rifles, rifles made after 1946, and single-shot rifles. As has been noted by others in the thread, that technically results in a situation where a shooter could win their category by default (if they're the only person with a single-shot rifle at the competition, for example), or another situation where a 1942 Savage No 4 Mk I* is in a different category to an otherwise identical 1950 Longbranch No 4 Mk I*.

For what it's worth, in my observation the sub-categories are usually ignored - If you want to shoot a Jungle Carbine at 300m while everyone else is using Swedish Mausers or M1917 Enfields then that's up to you and good luck.

[Seaspriter]

there are more genuine antique blackpowder guns floating about in still workable condition than many people think, particularly in the US. Personally I wouldn't be firing a 120+ year old gun unless I was absolutely, 110% sure of its provenance and safety to fire (for example, it had belonged to a family member or close friend AND had the OK from a knowledgable gunsmith), but from what I see on other forums, plenty of people do fire them - at targets both paper and four-legged.

So True Colonel. My father had 88 flintlocks in his collection when he died, and he did occasionally shoot a one. I still have a half dozen of the best ones. But I'd never shoot them -- after 200 years they are all questionable, even with a small charge. And, if you've ever shot a flintlock, you know how inaccurate most of them are -- even if rifled. I'll leave my 18th and 19th century weapons on the wall -- great history, but not for today's use. There are plenty of black powder repros that are made for modern shooting. My father used a repro Brown Bess regularly in ceremonies, but it couldn't even hit a modern target at 100 yds!

All my shootable antique collection is 20th century (WWI or II), military grade, well made from the start, and in good to excellent condition to start. I have no fears about loading a standard cartridge and pulling the trigger on these.

[Colonel Enfield]

So True Colonel. My father had 88 flintlocks in his collection when he died, and he did occasionally shoot a one. I still have a half dozen of the best ones. But I'd never shoot them -- after 200 years they are all questionable, even with a small charge. And, if you've ever shot a flintlock, you know how inaccurate most of them are -- even if rifled. I'll leave my 18th and 19th century weapons on the wall -- great history, but not for today's use. There are plenty of black powder repros that are made for modern shooting.

Personally, I'm really surprised at the number of people online who appear to be restoring and firing Nepalese Cache muskets. Sure, the British-made arms were generally very well-made guns in their day, but their day was more than 200 years ago in some cases - and then they were literally left in a pile in a storeroom in Nepal and forgotten about until a couple of years ago. I can understand restoring them to blank firing condition for re-enactment - and I think if you were determined to make them go "BANG" again, that would be the way to do it -but putting a live charge in one of them seems a bit, well, bold to me. Doubly so for the Nepalese-made guns; I know they were fine in their day but 150 years of sitting in a Himalayan warehouse can't possibly have done anything beneficial to their condition.

In relation to our (comparatively) more modern interest though, I wonder if in 100 years someone will be making reproduction Lee-Enfields and Mausers for people to shoot? I'm surprised at some of the guns being reproduced (There's a market for a 1872 open-top frame cartridge conversion revolver, but not a Mauser C96 in 9mm or a Webley Mk IV in .38 Special?) so who knows? Perhaps in 2116 there will be people rejoicing at how they can shoot a "modern" Lee-Enfield in whatever the readily available cartridges are (or perhaps even as a laser rifle?).

[Seaspriter]

I wonder if in 100 years someone will be making reproduction Lee-Enfields

I wouldn't be surprised. In my collection I have a reproduction of a 1874 Sharps and an 1866 Winchester -- all shootable. There are plenty of Colt .45 Revolvers being made today. And one of the most popular pistols is the 1911 Colt .45ACP. M1 Garrands and Carbines, now 70 years old, are being produced new today. When Lee Enfields get into the range of $1,000 USD, then a new Lee Enfield will be considered. Already there have been a number of conversions of No.4 rifles into No.5 carbines. Fake snipers are surfacing every day. If the price/demand is there, it will be done.