LE #1 Butt Plate -- Different sizes for different length butstocks?

[MrGriso]

Mrgriso, would appreciate your Lithgow info for the Lithgow Survey, located in the stickies at the start of this forum page.

I saw that above. I will do it at my first opportunity.

We could fit No4 butt plates to No1 rifles (and did to Navy Lanchesters too.....) after slightly modifying the heel recess (thread 6, top photo....) in the butt to accommodate the larger radiussed (?-word) No4 butt plate overhang.

Thanks for the information! This being the case, I might try to obtain a #4 butt plate in brass that's on the biggish side, and fit that. #4 plates seem to be much more plentiful in these parts than the #1 plates. It might look a little better in the end and require less sanding etc on the wood.

[Flying10uk]

Last year, by chance, I happened to have the brass butt plates off a No1 rifle and a No4 rifle at the same time and so took the opportunity to compare them side by side/back to back etc. I found that with the examples which I had in front of me the overall profile of the No4 butt plate was slightly larger all the way round with the largest difference at the bottom. There may of course be slight differences between manufacturers.

[MrGriso]

Thank you Flying10. Interesting. I have not made the same comparison between my two rifles, but I have always thought my #4's plate seems bigger somehow. In fact the stock itself seems girthier overall. Even though they're both "Regular" length stocks.

[Peter Laidler]

The difference between the outside world and the cloistered world of the Armourers shops, especially the larger Field or Command workshops was that if we were fitting a new butt, we'd simply go over to the racks of new and used spare parts and select the best fit from what was there (.....and there'd be dozens, believe me.....) and then fit that butt plate to the rifle. Get a perfect plate to butt fit by filing or rasping wood from the butt end face. Perfect fit with no gaps or wobbles.......... Then get the side clearance by filing/adjusting the sides of the butt plate. During your apprenticeship or later, at trade test time you'd aim for a clearance of 3/16"-1/8" all round.

Occasionally you'd find that the butt screw holes were slightly mis-aligned. That means drilling out the misaligned screw hole,, glueing and then knocking in a deep hardwood dowel to suit and next day, re-drilling correctly and screwing down correctly.

And don't forget MrGrisso that there is also a method of actually fitting the butt to the rifle, getting the tapered butt socket perfectly matched to the tapered butt socket of the rifle. Absolutely NO wobble or slack permitted

The out-inspectors were uncompromising men.........

[Sentryduty]

The out-inspectors were uncompromising men.........

And rightfully so Peter, us Infantry goons can break any good piece of kit, no reason to give us the slightest excuse "like the rifle came out of the shop already broken". LOL.

An EME friend of mine who used to work on our LAV 3 fleet often quote the old adage:

You can give an Infanteer a rock and an anvil, then leave him alone on a hill for 2 hours and when you come back the rock will be lost and the anvil will be broken. When you ask him what happened, he'll shrug his shoulders and say "I dunno".

[MrGriso]

I see from Springfield Sporters in Pennsylvania that I can buy the following #4 butt plates:

• Used brass butt plate, complete
• "New" brass butt plate with all parts (except screws), but disassembled and requiring fitting of the trap door
• Various other steel butt plates that I am less interested in

How much work is it to fit the trapdoor to a new/unused butt plate? Anyone know?

Here is a link, in case anyone is interested:

Butt plate


I figure that a new one might be the way to go since it is guaranteed not to have be shaved down by anyone, as some used ones might be.

[Peter Laidler]

Butt plates only came from Ordnance as a complete assembly like Bren change levers. Maybe they've just had a load of parts or stripped a load of complete assemblies down to the individual components.

Reminds me of when I saw a zillion used Mk2 Bren backsights. Yep...... each one stripped down to its component parts! For what? The only thing that ever wore out so far as I remember was the detent clicker spring.

[Patrick Chadwick]

The butt plates are generally all the same for both No.1 and No.4 rifles (one of the few parts that are interchangeable, from what I understand).

Well maybe I've got some funny Enfields. But (at least on my examples) the No.4 butt is "chubbier" than the No.1 butt. And the tang on the No.4 buttplate is also a bit wider. On the No.1s the tang is somewhat "pointier". The difference is small, but the tangs on the No.4 plates will not fit in the cut-out in the No.1 butts, and if I put a No.1 plate in position on a No.4 butt, there is an ugly gap around the sides of the tang.

It would be enlightening if someone could make the same test and confirm/contradict my observation.
BTW, my Enfields are in ex-factory configuration as far as I can tell, with the exception of the No.8 fitted with an No.4 butt.

[MrGriso]

It would be enlightening if someone could make the same test and confirm/contradict my observation.

I think Peter covers this difference regarding the interchangeability of the two types:

We could fit No4 butt plates to No1 rifles (and did to Navy Lanchesters too.....) after slightly modifying the heel recess (thread 6, top photo....) in the butt to accommodate the larger radiussed (?-word) No4 butt plate overhang. But fitting No1 butt plates to a No4 rifle was not permitted

I think what he's calling the plate overhang is what you are calling the tang.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Thanks for the info. I had missed that. Nice to know that my Enfields are OK!