New Type 99 - Worth Fixing Up?

[Patrick Chadwick]

While the flash obscures it a bit I do believe I am reading it correctly.

Agreed. It is series 32.

There seems to be some conflicting info on if it should have a complete AA sight but I can't imagine someone would just add one onto a hunting rifle like this after the fact and not try to put a new stock on it.

Your argument is convincing, and Military Rifles of Japan confirms on P114 that this series had the AA sight wings.

---------- Post added at 09:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:25 PM ----------

As for books pretty I'm sure I'm going to order Military Rifles of Japan first unless Japanese Rifles of World War II happens to have more pictures of the series 32 to study.

Agreed. "Military Rifles of Japan" has configuration details on each series.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Burb1989 is no doubt correct from the purely financial aspect. But you have the functional heart of the rifle (barrel, receiver, bolt) in apparently very good condition and with the enormous plus of a pristine 'mum. To break up a functioning rifle just because of the lack of a bit of wood seems to me almost an act of vandalism.

It's not just about money. If it was, I and other contributors wouldn't be spending hours helping others to get these old relics looking right and working well again. I know it doesn't "pay" - I have refurbished enough old rifles to know that if I placed any value on my time, I would earn more as a baby sitter. But it provides satisfaction far beyond the cost when you are able to take it to the range and shoot it.

You chose option c) from post #2. Stick with it!

[garrettbragg12]

Good luck with resto! Beautiful rifle, looking forward to seeing the end result!

On a side note, I love the peep sights on 99's!

[cipherk98]

Well I've put in my order for Military Rifles of Japan . Can't wait! Will pick this project up when I get the book in my hands and can study this series more, unless I stumble onto something at a can't miss price. Until then I'll just keep an eye out online, plus there are two gun shows on the weekend of the 30th to visit and scout though I don't recall ever seeing Arisaka parts at them, just (increasingly overpriced) rifles but then I never looked for parts unless they were Mauser or M1 Carbine.

Patrick, comparing parting this out to an act of vandalism is perfect and how I would feel which is why I don't see myself doing it. I'm weird about these things and as an example I am leaning towards fixing a beat up, 225k+ miles 4WD Camry I've owned for awhile as they are very hard to find cars that have mostly rusted away, so while it may take plenty of time and money to get it back on the road, I just hate the idea of ripping it apart and junking a very fixable vehicle that has been forgotten by most but are quite coveted by people who know them. Of course the cost of fixing that up could buy a lot of milsurps!

[Aragorn243]

There used to be guys with Arisaka parts at the Lebanon show. They had complete rifles dirt cheap but in rough shape. Last time I was there, I didn't see them though.

[cipherk98]

So I've received Fred Honeycutt's book today and have quickly gone over the Series 32 page. This now gives me three other rifles I've found that are series 32 to compare mine to, and I've noticed several subtle changes between them. Of course any you find on the internet are somewhat suspect in terms of authenticity without knowing their history but I feel like this gives me a good basis:

#22740 (Military Rifles of Japan) - White painted serial, mum, and type designation. Dust cover, monopod, drain hole stock.

#45396 (My rifle) - No paint on mum/serial/type. No dust cover. No apparent drain holes in stock, stock sanded and refinished.

#60824 (Gunbroker, currently listed) - White painted serial, mum, type designation. No dust cover (no bolt included with gun), no monopod or mount, no drain holes, w/o square cleaning rod release. Blank/no serial front band.

#988XX (Milsurps.com, posted/owned by under_the_radar in 2014) - Stock possibly sanded, w/o square cleaning rod release & drain holes. No monopod or mount. Dust cover (not known if original). Appears to have white painted serial and mum but not clearly pictured.

Take away here is that my serial number, mum, and designation should be painted white but isn't, as that is a pretty good range of serials and all are like that so it'd be very weird for a random lot in the middle to not be painted in. Not sure why/how it could be removed without totally refinishing the gun, so I'll need to carefully examine the metal for signs it was refinished/reblued. That said there is a fair amount of variation in this model according to the book in regards to drain holes, monopods, and 2 vs 3 screw bands (none of which are perceivable in the pictures of the online examples). In addition there is a fairly large gap between the highest and lowest observed serials with these features, and my rifle falls right into that ambiguous area, though a gun very close to my serial is cited in the book as having a monopod band w/o a monopod. The only thing I can say nearly 100% for sure is that mine does not have drain holes. I will examine the stock closely one more time as the stain made it hard to even perceive where the buttstock was glued together but I did not see any obvious grain differences or anything from the inside of the stock that suggests they were filled.

So I think the best course of action here is to get a two piece transition stock with no drain holes. This will dictate the type of front band won't it? And will it also determine the type of middle barrel band? At this point, it's going to be impossible to get the gun 100% accurate as there is not enough data to dictate with certainty how it was originally configured, though I feel like I can get close enough for what the gun is to be happy with it without spending an arm and a leg.

Edit: Aragorn, thanks for the tip on the Lebanon show. I was at the last two and the one in fall was great (got a case of 500 new rounds of 7.62x54R Tula for $200) but the one a few weeks ago was a real stinker, mostly junk. I also noticed the guys you are referring to were not there. I believe this weekend there is a small show in Lancaster and another bigger one in Gettysburg, I'm hoping to hit both (Gettysburg might be next weekend, need to check). After that there is a sportsman's flea market in Hummelstown the week of the outdoor show but after that, nothing so anything I don't find will be an online order.

[Aragorn243]

Gettysburg is this weekend and I'm planning to go. I need some Martini ammo among other things. I did not know of a small one in Lancaster but I wouldn't go to it anyway. Last small show I went to there was a complete bust with the exception of getting an awesome book on Italian tanks in WWII. But I don't go to gun shows to buy books.

The white paint isn't from Japan, guys just paint them to make it easier to read and it's most likely chalk, not paint.

I almost bought one of the Arisaka and have kind of kicked myself for not doing so. They looked rough but were complete and uncleaned. Thus you have no real idea of what you were getting. The price was dirt cheap. Prices on them now are sky high for the most part, without mums getting what mums got two years ago. Never see mums anymore.

[Marines55]

indeed, the white paint is just put there by collectors to make the markings stand out. i do it to all of my arisakas to help me pick out certain series and arsenals much easier when showing them in a display at the York show. the next York, PA show is at the end of February and i think i will be setting up another Japanese firearms display. I also have some type 99 parts for sale.

BE SURE TO KNOW WHAT YOU NEED TO DO BEFORE YOU START BUYING PARTS!!!! 99 parts don't swap flawlessly from rifle to rifle even within the same series or arsenal. don't get caught trying to put a nagoya stock on a Toyo Kogyo (modern day Mazda motor corp.) made rifle....it won't work and you will have to hand fit it. that being said, this rifle is going to need some very specific parts to get it restored to close to original condition. it will most certainly cost you more than it will ever be worth to do this. the cleaning rod alone will cost you about $60 for an original, a stock set will be about $150, and the front band will more than likely be mismatched anyway so it will always be mismatched and not worth much. your rear barrel band should be a monopod type without pod. if you want to wait and get a hand on advice, come see me at the York show and i can guide you from there. if you have ever been to the York, PA show and have seen the sniper, British, and Japanese displays....that is me.

[cipherk98]

Marines55, thank you for the information and advice! I may take a trip to York at the end of the month, not been there yet as the last few times things have come up, plus I didn't get to Gettysburg this month as other stuff needed done. Lancaster's small little show was all I got to as it was close to home; it was nice with mostly muzzleloading/black powder and some milsurp (as expected) though all I bought was some Graf & Sons/Hornaday 7.7mm for it to shoot and reload. There was a Johnson M1941 that would have been a great addition but probably would have been beyond my budget! I was planning to buy the stock first and hardware second unless I got a stock with hardware which would be a plus.

In closely looking over my gun today because I was in the safe there is no evidence it had drain holes in the stock, the grain is consistent in areas where a dowel or plug would have to be to fill them in so I'm pretty set on looking for that style.

At the moment I have my eye on a complete stock with hardware for sale on fleabay. Like mine probably was it has no drain holes, and the seam for the second piece of wood in the buttstock is above the top of the rear sling, which is like how mine is after taking a close look at it. Downside is the middle band is wrong for my serial number range (slotted w/o monopod) so that would need swapped out. Handguard color looks off to me too but could be due to the grain and lighting. This means it could be from about 6 or 7 series other than those by Toyo Kogyo, but if the price is right I might take a chance on it. Any specific proofs in locations I could ask the seller about to know what arsenal possibly made it?

[Marines55]

Yes, proof marks on a 99 short rifle will be found on the under side of the butt of the stock. One about 3 inches above the toe, and one about 2 inches down from trigger guard rear tang screw. Hanguards will be marked on the interior with a single or double proof mark. One but if advice is to stay away from sreisel seller on gunbroker. He also sells on eBay