The Turk ammo was a real sweet deal, but not at its factory loading. A must to pull the bullet and start over again. I don't know how the Germans in WWI could handle that load. Very hard on the shoulder and I have never tried one in a Kar98a. Must be brutal. I realize the Germans had a short Cavalry carbine in 8mm that was so harsh the Germans withdrew them during WWI. They are very rare today. Handloading opens all sort of bullet/powder combinations and is fun to boot.