A5/B4 scope also Evans Bros's WW1 scope mounts

[harlton]

Hi All,
I'm Trying to finish my replica, WW1 sniper rifles, my A5/B4 scope is mainly complete, but I'm looking for a A5 type end to go on it, rather than just make up the simple knurled locking ring type end, that I understood, at the time was std for the B4's. I'm not so sure on this now, if any how if anyone can help me out with a spare adjustable focal end for sale, or even details of one so I can finish off the rest, and finish this. Would be greatly appreciated also, any help or contact leads,would help thanks.

On the second part, I'm also looking for any info on Evan's Bros scope mounts, as they fitted the most German scopes to WW1 smle's, early in the war. I have a fair few pictures of them now, even with them holding German scopes,my rifle is a 1915 BSA mk3*. However there doesn't appear to be any allowance for windage on these set-up's. I'm not glued to total correctness, but would rather be faithful, if possible, and especially if I'm missing something.
Any advice gratefully received, again thanks.

Regards Ian

Information

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[Roger Payne]

Hello Ian,
There are two patterns of mounts that were used by Evans for mounting their scopes on the SMLE so far as I am aware. There is an example of one type in the Imperial War Museum collection in London, & anyone with a copy of Ian Skennerton's 'The British Sniper' can see it featured in the book. However, in spite of periodic rumours of other examples of this type (large cast aluminium side rail type mount) still existing, I have never seen one. The known surviving example does bear an Evans scope.

Whilst not common, the second pattern of mount that I am aware of does still exist in quite small numbers, & I know of at least two rifles that have been set up using either original or reproduction bases sympathetically fitted to a period SMLE & then topped off with an original Evans scope with original two piece rings. There is indeed no lateral adjustment on the two piece rings or on Evans scopes, but there is a worm wheel type adjuster on the front mount base. I have a rifle fitted with an original set of bases that I found in a leading Bisley based gunsmith's junk box about twenty five years ago, & it is these that are now fitted to my rifle. One set of faithful copy mounts was reproduced from them some years ago & as far as I am aware it is this set that is fitted to the only other complete rifle that I know of. I think that this rifle is featured in Robert Spielauer's book. There will be photographs of my rifle & scope available when part 2 of my HBSA article on Great War British & Dominion Sniping Equipment gets printed at the end of this year/beginning of next. Part one (essentially dealing with the larger volume production rifles such as the PPCo, Aldis/Purdey, Aldis/H&H, & Winchester A5 types) is in the current 2015 journal. Sorry for the plug!

If you wish I'll try & sort out some photo's of the Evans mounts. But of course, they may have used different mounting systems for fitting other manufacturers' scopes - there are huge gaps in our knowledge about the First World War rifles, certainly compared to what happened in WW2 & later.

ATB.

[Roger Payne]

A few photo's I thought people might find of interest........& it does make a change from No4 (T)'s & L42's! The feet on my Evans scope were damaged & have been rebuilt, though they still require a little cosmetic playing with. The WA5 shown came with its matching case, which is marked to the 26th Bn Royal Fusiliers. The Aldis H&H case is named to an Abner Blythe, a sniper in the 8th Bn KOYLI. It seems Abner was lucky & survived the Great War.

ATB.

[mike1967]

Thumbnails are tiny for some reason Roger.

[harlton]

Hi Roger,
Thanks again for coming to my aid, I'm not sure I've seen the first aluminium mount you refer to,unless it's that bracket that fits from the trigger guard. I'm awaiting a look at the British Sniper, when it arrives on inter-library loan.
I have a copy of Robert Spielauer's book, and see what looks like two sets of Evans mounts shown in it. First the just F&R square box type, and then the similar set with the inverse sine wave extension added on, and then a brass rod protruding out of it. I take it that's the worm wheel type, Thanks very much for that tip, much appreciated.
In Skennerton's book, British Empire Sniper rifles he lists the Evan's Bros as the largest suppliers of Goerz scope combo's, not sure exactly what he mean's when he splits the two groups first to early 1915 group, which would suit my receiver date and amounting to 80 units, then a further 120. I have a really nice Georz scope and matching 12x bino's too, to play with.
Another question while I've got you Roger, is are the scopes listed as Evans scopes, actually British or are they earlier German scopes, being that their still in brass, then converted slightly and renamed, Evans. I understand this went on quite a bit, especially from other books I have, and they look so German.
Also Sorry for my ignorance, but where can I obtain a copy of your articles, I'm interested in reading them, thanks a lot for all your help.

A very nice collection, I really prefer the WW1 rifles too, although I can't knock my Fake LB 4T, and even though it's just a replica, it's still really nice, but not even close to as interesting. Do you know anything of the C.L.L.E.'s that they were suppose to of kitted out , I've hear'd them refereed too, with all kinds of sights and, mounts.

Best regards Ian

[RobD]

Roger,
could you post larger pictures? They are indeed tiny as mike 1967 says.
Rob

[Roger Payne]

Sorry chaps. Hadn't realised they would come out so small. Busy day on but I'll see what I can do later.

The Royal Armouries have two Long Lees that have bases on them for the Jeffery scope, & long rifles were also fitted with various target sights in the marksman's role, particularly early on in the war. I also have a Watts scope in Alex Martin side mounts that was removed from a LLE & was the personal property of a Colonel (who wrote his name on the scope case). However, I suspect that this may have been a one off, as were so many. This heterogeneity of designs makes the study so rewarding & frustrating both at the same time!

Rob, are the HBSA articles available generally on line? I only have two hard copies, one of which is promised to a good friend.

Ian, I haven't looked at the Spielauer book recently & was speaking from memory, but I'll double check what is shown in case I got it wrong. The Evans rifle at the IWM is indeed the large cast aluminium mount that locates to the trigger guard of the SMLE.

Being a techno-dummy I'll see if I can figure out how to resize some photo files later so they are uploadable, but so that they don't come out too small, as clearly happened above. Bear with me!

[RobD]

Roger, as far as I know, the articles are only published on paper; clearly the HBSA should digitise all the present and past journals for the last 43 yrs and post them as searchable PDFs - this is what, for example, the South African Military History Society did, and it immediately became an invaluable resource. I shall contact the editor and make a suggestion.

[RobD]

Roger, the HBSA inform me that journals are available to purchase online - up till 2014 so far - see
HBSA Journal Summaries and digital downloads - Historical Breechloading Smallarms Association
but note they cost £8+VAT per issue.

[Peter Laidler]

Can you make them larger DRP. Not a phrase I'm familiar with myself of course!