Haganah - TMT IV Sten markings

[Flying10uk]

Not the toolmaker background that got me interested in Stens. I tend to be interested in 20th century weapons especially WW2 and Cold War from any nation but also have a handful of older ones. When I look at any metal object I automatically visualise in my mind how the item has been made.

Other possible causes for the marks on the Lines Brothers cover could be that the die blocks aren't sufficiently hard enough or haven't been hardened at all which they should have been. Also with a form tool of this type there needs to be a tiny amount of clearance built into the design and so, for example, the Lines simple form tool should have clearance of around .003" per side in addition to the metal thickness. To figure out the width of the punch/top tool of the Lines tool we take the width of the die (=width of cover) minus 2X metal thickness minus 2X clearance (2X.003=.006) = punch/top tool width.

This Sten cover could only really be formed up in a channel type form tool even the type with the welded back as I think the cover is too deep and narrow for normal "off the shelf" bending tools. However, a way round this would be to bend just one side and the base part of the cover with "off the shel" bending tools then weld the other side of the cover on followed by welding the rear part of the cover.

[tiriaq]

Speaking of manufacturing processes, has anyone ever seen photos or descriptions of how the Long Branch one piece Mk. II magazine housings were formed?

David S. Findlay's book "The Sten Submachine Gun" is an interesting example of reverse engineering.

[Peter Laidler]

Remembering how it looked, I would imagine that the LB magazine you speak of started its life as a tube that was pressed into its oblong shape. Then shaped top and bottom. After that the feed lips were formed and a mandril of sorts placed inside whereupon the bottom sections were rolled/pressed over to form the base

[tiriaq]

Peter - I am referring to the one piece magazine housing used during the last couple of years of production at Long Branch, not the Canadian seamless, formed magazine body. The Cdn. mags are stamped "KC". Kelvinator Canada? As mentioned, no doubt started as a tube, then rolled and pressed into the trapezoidal section. As far as magazine bodies go, there are quite a variety. Seamless body; one piece, overlapped in rear groove right over left; the same, left over right; welded seam along the front; separate back piece spot welded to the u shaped front piece. Maybe others. No doubt the variations were acceptable as long as the magazines worked.

[Peter Laidler]

Oh yes, sorry......... But the answer to your question is that they were punched pressed out in the same way as old bicycle handlebar heads (the bit where the round handlebar joins the round upright) were formed. Pressed from round tubular steel. Have a look and you'll see the similarities

[Flying10uk]

vincent, I've now looked at the covers on my Stens to compare with yours. Starting with the Canadian cover I don't believe that your cover has been welded on the back; the weld which you can see on the inside of the cover is what we call "burn through". As the name suggests the weld has got a little too hot and has started to burn through and any hotter may have resulted in a hole. The cover on my Long Branch Sten has been made exactly the same way but the welding is much neater and has clearly been welded by a different welder. There is only a tiny amount of burn through in a couple of places and it is difficult to tell that it has even been welded; it is almost as well produced/tidy as the Spear & Son cover. I have removed a one piece formed (no welding) cover from my Mk3 Sten which would appear to be made by some-one other than Spear & Son because there are small differences in details such as the small forms on the sides of the cover and other small differences. I haven't been able to find any maker's mark on it yet and it is painted which I am reluctant to remove. I would speculate it being a Lines Brother's cover purely because it was off a MK3 but it may not be as it could be a replacement.

[Vincent]

Do you have any pictures of your Mk3? Does it have the SA property mark on the magazine housing?

[Flying10uk]

I don't have any pictures at the moment but I will have a look at the mag housing to see if there is a S.A. mark.

[Flying10uk]

I have just had a good look at the mag housing, Vincent, but can't see a S.A. marking. It just has Sten M.C. MKIII on the top and L.B. & the serial on the lower face. Were the S.A. markings normally on the upper or lower face? The overall finish is a good painted surface although part of the rear receiver has rusted in the past but appears to have been treated and the whole Sten then repainted. I can't see any other markings visible.

[philb]

heres another ive been wondering on the sten, on the chamber of the barrel, what is the throat ? angle and depth ? is there to aid feeding ?