Need help identifying this Sten

[gsimmons]

I guess I should've been clearer in my wording(or lack of it). I was trying illustrate the differences in the types of welds used, and can it be used to date a mag. housing? The example used in the book (Sten Machine Carbine) on page 49 is an Elkington made one, does the same apply to the OP's and mine?

Information

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[philb]

ive looked though the sten book but cant find out who made this, any help anyone ?

also when a sten was issued to a soldier how many mags went with it ??

cheers

[5 Commando]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Not sure if I see a consensus here but is there a doubt then as to the originality of this piece? Do the lack of welds indicate a fake i.e. "made up" if that's what you mean Mr. Laidler? The seller is asking a pretty penny for the weapon owing to its condition and swears it is all original, but original can be interpreted in many ways.

Side note. I have another Sten in my collection, this one ex the Finns, replete with weld marks etc. I recently replaced the bulbous and aesthetically unpleasing - to me - winter cocking handle with a smaller locking model, put on a Mk5 shroud and also installed a collar on the recoil spring to secure the cocking knob on the bolt. She's fully functional and I reload many rounds per month to keep her well fed. Amazingly accurate and reliable, it vies strongly for range popularity with a younger Uzi and an AKSU. Attachment 74181

[philb]

very nice mate

[Vincent]

As Peter pointed out, the ears are missing. If you look at what is left of them under magnification you can see they have been milled off and do not contact the tube. So the trigger mechanism housing has to be attached to the tube some other way.

The ones I have seen that look like this have a block welded to the tube that aligns with the front of the trigger mechanism housing. There’s a screw through the block that threads into the front of the trigger mechanism housing. When the screw is removed the tube can be pulled forward and removed from the trigger mechanism housing. (That’s why I wanted to see under the cover)

I have never heard of an original Sten made this way.

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Except for the barrel nut and magazine housing, the gun looks very clean. It looks like the other parts have been refinished or made new. The tube doesn’t have a mark on it.

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If I didn’t know you were Switzerland, I would say it might be what we call a “Post Dealer Sample.” Those are guns only licensed dealers here can own. If they give up the license, the gun has to be sold to another “dealer” or destroyed. So the value of these “dealer samples” is a lot less than Transferables. A “dealer sample” Sten might cost around $1,500 and a Transferable around $7,000 to $8,000.

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The tube has been reamed on the inside, like a Sterling. I don’t recall if any Stens were made that way. Mine has a new tube/receiver. Maybe Peter can tell us, or someone who has an original body tube, if the tubes were reamed?

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If it was me looking to buy this Sten, I would ask for pictures with the cover removed. And I would tell the seller why?

I often find people selling guns who don’t know what they have. They nearly always appreciate getting more information.

I would also want to know about the “2016” marking on the magazine housing.

[Flying10uk]

gsimmons, I think that the reason your mag housing, which you posted pictures of in post 4, looks different to 5 Cammando's in post 1 is because it has not been refinished. I would suggest that the mag housing in post 1 has simply had the welds ground down to produce a smoother surface as part of a refurbishment. I was hoping for some confirmation or correction of this following my post 5.

[Vincent]

I couldn’t find a picture of attachment block I was talking about. I did find a slightly different one. It will give you an idea of how it works.






It’s a semi-auto version. The slot in the block prevents the tripping lever from being moved into the automatic position. The round hole is for the pin that holds the trigger mechanism housing in place. Anyhow, you can see how the housing is attached and why the ears are not needed.

[5 Commando]

I couldn’t find a picture of attachment block I was talking about. I did find a slightly different one. It will give you an idea of how it works.

http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/i...0block%201.jpg


http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/i...0block%202.jpg

It’s a semi-auto version. The slot in the block prevents the tripping lever from being moved into the automatic position. The round hole is for the pin that holds the trigger mechanism housing in place. Anyhow, you can see how the housing is attached and why the ears are not needed.

A picture says a thousand words indeed, and is probably what's been done here, thanks. The reluctance of the seller to provide further info or pics raised the final flag for me and I've declined the purchase gracefully. On a side note. Here on the continent we're still spoiled for choices when it comes to deactivated Stens and the like. New 2016 EU rules which dictate deacts to be welded up are now being legally circumvented. Vendors now provide - quite lawfully - deacts that are sold as "parts", without barrel or bolt and trigger mechanism. For many this is ideal - simple enough to source the rest and reassemble into a perfect and unaltered piece. Not quite what the draconian framers of the new guidelines had in mind. Another example of the idiocy that is hurled in bucket-loads from the ivory towers of Brussels. Leave.

---------- Post added at 09:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:17 AM ----------

I can't add anything more except that while the remainder of the gun is definately a Sten, albeit filed and linished to make the thing look good, the main casing is 'wrong'. A bit like a VW Beetle made into a dune-buggy. It might sound like a VW and run like a VW and be basically a VW floor pan.......... it ain't a VW Beetle!

Touché. It's a dung beetle!

[Flying10uk]

5 Commando, if I was in your position I would ask the vendor for pictures with the trigger housing cover off, as Vincent suggest, and without giving a reason. If buying remotely as in this case it is reasonable to ask for plenty of pictures; if the vendor refuses, personally, I would steer well clear.

[Peter Laidler]

I can't add anything more except that while the remainder of the gun is definately a Sten, albeit filed and linished to make the thing look good, the main casing is 'wrong'. A bit like a VW Beetle made into a dune-buggy. It might sound like a VW and run like a VW and be basically a VW floor pan.......... it ain't a VW Beetle!