What happened to P14 rifles made in US for Britain?

[AradoAR234]

Kind of makes you wonder that the rifle that was supposed to replace the SMLE got shafted so bad. I have occasionally thought the British may have persevered with the 7mm version once WW1 was over, but they were probably so up to their ears in debt it may not have been feasible. From what I've gathered, the Lee Enfield proved a more reliable design in the mud of flanders and sands of Palestine, and went on to fight in future wars, even if deemed "obsolete" after the second Boer War in 1902.
I own 2 P14's and two M17's, and would not part with them; makes you want to cry into your beer thinking of them rusting at the bottom of the ocean.

[Frederick303]

Not only the P14 rifles. The UK had 75,000 Ross MK III rifles sent to them from Canada in 1940. It would appear all of them were dumped at sea as well, after use by the Home guard, some artillery schools and such. In so far as I can tell from looking at golden state arm ads and Interarms ads, none were sold here in the US, which leaves the sea dumping as the most likely final destination.

[Sentryduty]

It would appear all of them were dumped at sea as well, after use by the Home guard, some artillery schools and such.

We have had Home Guard marked Ross rifles appear for sale in Canada, I haven't researched them beyond what the sale advert said but appears that some may have survived.

My Ross sporter for example is market to a British marine unit and survived.

[Calif-Steve]

The Dutch dumped over 250,000 Kar98k's into the North Sea in the early 190's. Apparently they were dumped in order to make space at the storage site. The Base Commander ordered them dumped without notifying his superiors. The loss was discovered by an inspection team doing routine site inspections. It was not approved and there was nothing anyone could do.

[Frederick303]

Canadian Militia guns were sold in both Canada and the US, most of them sported in the early 1950s to middle 1950s. Not all the rosses were sent to the UK, only around 75,000 out of around 118,000 that the Canadians had in 1940. Working from memory here, I would have to check my reference books to be sure, old age and all that. But Canada retained a larger number of MK II (forget number of stars) and MKIII rifles at least 42,000.

I may be wrong on this as I am not a Ross expert, but I seem to recall the UK Naval marked Ross rifles were for the most part saved because they were sold as part of ships stores and when ships were sold post war they went with them. I seem to recall that some Chilean ross rifles were imported in the late 1950s so marked.

That said when I went through all of the sales circulars some years ago trying to figure out what century, Golden state and Interarms brought in, there was a noticeable lack of Ross rifles from the UK. The other partner in that equation, Parker Hale shows no ads in that period for Ross rifles and they were Golden state arms UK agent. Golden state shows some ads but they seem to have been sourced directly from Canada.

There were Ross rifles imported from Spain, which were MK IIIB rifles (interarms imports 1959/1960)
There were MK I/MKII/MKIII variants that came in via (what was to become) century prior to the big UK sales in the 1958 and after.

The very first sales from interarms in the mid to late 1950s with MKV, MKIV and even some CLLE rifles seem to lack much in the way of Ross rifles.

Now in the US today the most common Ross we see is the MK II, from the 1917 state of New York import (taken over by US government). Around 20,000 were imported, of which most were sold to the NRA members post 1919. Around 2000 to 3000 MK IIIB rifles were imported from Spain. Rare but you see them. The 75,000 MKIII rifles (ross rear sight) from the UK are noticeable missing, I have never seen but one or two of them in my entire life. That is why I conclude they were dumped at sea.

[Flying10uk]

Could at least some of the Ross rifles have been sent to Russia around the mid to late war period from the U.K., rather than be dumped at sea, or are there records available that disprove this theory?

[Frederick303]

Those are the MK IIB rifles, sold to the UK in WWI after Canada's adoption of the SMLE.

sent to the Baltic republics, the Ukraine and Armenia in 1919 to 1921. eventually captured by the Soviet Union between 1921~23 and the fall fo the Baltic republics in 1940.

The only ones of the MK IIIB rifles to come back were the ones sent by the Soviet Union to Spain in 1936.

Small numbers used by the Soviet Union for running bore international competition in the 1950s and 1960s.

[pickax]

Lots of knowledge and history in this thread. I'm enjoying it.
Thanks for the education!

[rayg]

Here's an unusual Ross that survived disposal. It's a British Royal Marine issued Mk III Ross. Cal. 303 British. The letters “PLY” are stamped on the barrel knox in front of the receiver which represents the Royal Marine Naval yard Depot in Plymouth, England. Along with the British added stamped serial number #5113 on the receiver. And the letters “CRB”, are stamped on the bolt handle representing the Crombie Royal Marine Depot and the British added serial number #3663. There is also a number #624 stamped in the wood on the underside of the forearm near the front band. Possibly a rifle rack or ship number.
The rifle still retains its original Ross Canadian serial number of #871 which is still visible on the butt stock cartouche with a 1916 date. There are no import stamps.
The rifle and bore are in excellent condition. The front sight cover is missing and may have been removed by the depot as un-necessary for ship board.
Almost all of these British Marine rifles were sold off to commercial companies in England who converted them to sporters by cutting the stocks and barrels back and it’s very rare to find one that escaped this alteration and is still full length. Ray

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[Brian Dick]

I have a Mk.III marked to the Home Guard with a rack number of 43. I imported it out of Canada many years ago. The serial number HG 12610 is stamped on the left rear of the barrel on the breech end. It's one of the most accurate service rifles I've ever had.