Anyone Seen These Drawings Before?

[mrclark303]

I wish that you'd had the opportunity to come over Rod, maybe when Colonel KA was the NZ Liaison Officer here. He was a GOOD friend of ours. You could have had a half day or so on the FF or 100m range with the SA80-A2. I know that when I sing its praises people always say '...well you've got to say that haven't you...?' You know....., sing the party line and all that........ But it really is a different weapon now. I'm serious when I say that it was as good as anything else of the type. Ironically I'm meeting up with some of the old A2 REME trials team tomorrow. Have a good weekend

Interesting point on the A2 Peter, I recently had a good look at the collection, especially the fascinating SA80 history wall, with its assorted prototypes, trials and issue examples. It was very informative to be walked through the alterations made through the years to the latest issue standard.

The chap who took me round has extensive experience of the type as you know and sang it's praise every bit as much as yourself!

[Bruce_in_Oz]

The AUG (Tupperware Rifle) was sold on the claim that it was low maintenance, low parts consumption.

Maybe if you are wandering about the Alps, picking Edelweiss, or something.

I had been black-smithing L1A1s for a few years before the little green rifles arrived.

Some clown in the "paperwork" department authorised, in the official manual, "traditional" lubrication for these things. That went as well as you wold expect. Dust plus oil equals grinding paste, just what you need on plastic firing mechanism components.

My boss, a VERY experienced Warrant Officer, decided that the best way to thoroughly clean all the sundry plastic bits was to chuck them in a washing machine, en masse. It worked a treat. The cleaned parts would then be inspected for wear or damage and "triaged". Got some funny looks from the "greasers" (vehicle mechanics). We used to keep boxes of firing-mech "packs", ready lubed with GRAPHITE, in a locker. Modular repair; whip out the suspect unit, drop in the "new", tweak the trigger extension rod adjustment and away you go.

The return springs inside those tubes were a challenge as well, especially as the proper tool for stripping them was a bit slow in filtering down. Early springs were lubed with a special light grease. This of course, made things interesting when water got inside, just like the old L1A1 return springs. It didn't take much water to start causing a "hydraulic lock" effect whilst firing. The solution was to pre-coat the spring as the factory with some sort of "moly" compound. This, of course wore off rapidly and it was quite common to see gun-plumbers re-spraying the springs with "moly in a can". Or just shrugging their shoulders and dropping in a complete new set.

One of the more interesting "issues" was that of parallax in some of the optics. Bear in mind that this is a 1.5 magnification job, about the last place one would expect such a problem. But it could be clearly observed when the offending unit was held in a firm mount and you moved you head slightly whilst looking at a test target about 200m away. The reticule would move, relative to the target. For "government work" out to 300m this appears to have been of no concern to anyone further up the food-chain. The more fussy users found that a slightly different cheek-weld would produce interesting results. At 300m, your fist-sized group on the centre of the bull, was suddenly a fist-sized group, somewhere in the "3" ring, or COMPLETELY OFF the Figure 12 "Hun's Head". On top of that, in the original AUG / F-88, the scope was a dinky optical tube mounted inside the "carry handle", cast integrally with the "body". To swap out this tube you needed a special "dry-nitrogen" flush kit to purge the interior before whacking the plug back in. Fine in a country the size of a handkerchief, but in Oz??

Cocking handle assemblies were the other horror. They would wear rapidly and fail to "hold" in the "hold-open" notch. Why? Well, because of a "perceived" problem of limp-wristed Diggers "short-stroking" the cocking handle, a new "drill" was introduced: Step ONE, haul the working parts fully to the rear and engage the handle in the "hold-open". Step TWO, flick the handle clear of the notch and allow it to fly forward freely.

All very nice, BUT: the PLASTIC cocking handle engages in the cast-aluminium "hold-open" notch with a VERY small actual engagement area. Add to this the requirement for regular "safety" checks and, first, the plastic cocking handles would wear and then the "lug" on the cast-aluminium body would wear and pretty soon your "hold-open" wouldn't. The body was die-cast. There are only a few Aluminium alloys that can be die-cast: 7075, as used in the M-16 uppers and lowers, is NOT one of them. NONE of the die-casting alloys can also be "solution hardened" as can 7075. These "castable" alloys are also almost impossible to anodize, as well.

Then there were the "upgrades", ALL of which, in succession, added weight. The addition of a M-1913 "Picatinny" rail was special thing. The "manufacturers" took a huge batch of standard (mostly pre-loved) bodies and and machined off the "carry handle' bit and milled a special slot in the top of the body.

To this was added a "rail" unit, which, of course, could not be welded to the die-cast body, so it was "locked in place" with a "spring plunger". Oh, goody!! The boys and girls in the unit and field workshops quickly found out which anaerobic sealant held it there the longest. Of course, this rail extended, unsupported, back over the plastic "butt" assembly. Why? Because it had to be able to accommodate the optics unit of choice far enough back to obtain correct eye relief. Standard optic unit was the same old inner tube mounted in a substantially heavier, (how unusual), housing that clamped to the new "rail". Thus, the next "common fault" to appear was BENT scope rails.

Then someone decided that more bits had to be attached to the front end to accommodate IR lasers and such, and let's not forget the saga of the "modified" M203 equipped variant. That thing needed wheels.

So, someone decides to ditch the "plastic fantastic" and go with the M-4. Promptly, of course, loading IT down with Gucci gizmos until it weighs as much a loaded L1A1, but without the down-range "wallop" of the old girl.

[mrclark303]

Sounds like the F88 required just as many mods and changes as the L85 did through the years!

Interesting that NZ have decided not to stick with it and go with AR variants as the F88 replacement, I assumed they would keep commonality with Australia.

[Woodsy]

Peter, I concede to your superior knowledge of the SA80 A2 as my limited experience was with the original model back in the '80's (although I still struggle with the concept of tension springs in firearms!). Yes, I regret not being able to catch up with you at Warminster. Colonel K waxes lyrical about his trips there with you!

Bruce, the AMT was another of the rifles that saw service in the' deer wars' and I made up scope mounts for a few of them, but strictly functional with no thought given to retaining originality. The chopper boys were only interested in getting job done solidly and quickly so they could get back into the money!

MrClark, I have attached some photos of my L1A1 I took this morning.

[Woodsy]

Sounds like the F88 required just as many mods and changes as the L85 did through the years!

Interesting that NZ have decided not to stick with it and go with AR variants as the F88 replacement, I assumed they would keep commonality with Australia.

NZ experienced problems with AUG requiring several recalls to replace faulty components. Some AD's were experienced after some of the plastic trigger components broke, scope problems were ongoing, stocks cracked with the high UV, and if fired in very wet conditions the operating rods would 'hydraulic' and cause splits in the die cast body. That was just a few of the problems off the top of my head. The 5.56x45 LMT rifle is a nice piece of kit. Designated marksmen in the infantry platoons having been using them in 7.62x51 for few years now.

[tankhunter]

Peter, I concede to your superior knowledge of the SA80 A2 as my limited experience was with the original model back in the '80's (although I still struggle with the concept of tension springs in firearms!). Yes, I regret not being able to catch up with you at Warminster. Colonel K waxes lyrical about his trips there with you!

Bruce, the AMT was another of the rifles that saw service in the' deer wars' and I made up scope mounts for a few of them, but strictly functional with no thought given to retaining originality. The chopper boys were only interested in getting job done solidly and quickly so they could get back into the money!

MrClark, I have attached some photos of my L1A1 I took this morning.

Woodsy, I am going to have to slap your Dam legs Mate! Your hinge pin screw, is 180 Degrees round the wrong way!!!! Now promise Me, you will buck up!......

[Peter Laidler]

I have to say that the direction of the axis screw never bothered me. Was there an EMER designated 'correct' way I'm bound to ask.

[Woodsy]

Woodsy, I am going to have to slap your Dam legs Mate! Your hinge pin screw, is 180 Degrees round the wrong way!!!! Now promise Me, you will buck up!......

Must be because I live 'down under'! We do everything the opposite way round!

[mrclark303]

That AD59 looks to be in excellent original shape Woodey, a real museum standard rifle. I would be chuffed to bits to have her in my collection! Does she still have the Slaz marked handguards and the early bee hive break leaver?

[Woodsy]

That AD59 looks to be in excellent original shape Woodey, a real museum standard rifle. I would be chuffed to bits to have her in my collection! Does she still have the Slaz marked handguards and the early bee hive break leaver?

Yes, all Slazenger woodwork, non-rotating carry handle, but a smooth body catch lever. I noticed a few beehive levers on some rifles but by the time I realised their significance I had sold them all! I keep my eyes open for one. The condition of this rifle I have kept was head and shoulders above the very few AD59's I had. The early Slazenger wooden fore-ends were very fragile and very few of the rifles had any, and most of that was knocked around. My introduction to the L1A1 was at Burnham Camp in 1961 and we were issued brand new rifles for training but they were taken back at the end of each day. Our standard issue rifles were .303 Long Branch No.4's that we racked beside our beds.