CARTRIDGE DEVELOPMENT AND FORMING BY DOUG BOWSER

[Doug Bowser]

CARTRIDGE DEVELOPMENT AND FORMING
BY DOUG BOWSER
When I was a partner in the Great Southern Arms Gunshop, we were able to purchase several 7.62x25mm Soviet Block Pistols. Ammunition was readily available for these pistols in the form of surplus ammo from several different countries. We bought Chinese Tokarev and Czech CZ-52 Pistols. Chinese pistol ammo was loaded to 1490 fps. It functioned well in the Tokarev and CZ-52 Pistols. We were able to buy a case of Czech sub-machinegun ammunition. This ammo is loaded to higher velocity and pressure than normal 7.62x25mm ammo. The CZ-52 pistol was designed to be used with the sub-machinegun ammo. The chronograph told us the Czech ammo had a velocity of 1680 fps. Even though the bullet weighed a scant 100 grains this ammo gave the impression of firing a .45 ACP. This round has great penetrating power. It would penetrate a 10” creosote pole with power to spare. We also scrounged up an old bullet proof vest and strapped it to a bag of redi-mix concrete. It penetrated the vest and the bag of concrete. It stopped before penetrating the back of the vest.
At the same time we bought 10 Mauser semi-auto pistols from Cheng’s of Atlanta. Five of them were 1896 models and 5 were bolo style. Six of these pistols had horrible bores. We shipped them to Michael’s Gunsmiths in Oregon and had them relined. When these pistols returned, the job was so good you could not see the liner in the bore’s muzzle. We had a few rounds of 7.63mm Mauser ammo and the pistols functioned perfectly and were very accurate. At that time 7.63mm Mauser ammo was hard to find and very expensive. You should never use 7.62x25mm Tokarev ammo in a Mauser 96 or bolo pistol. The use of this ammo will destroy the Mauser pistols. I decided to try and form some 7.63mm reloadable brass. The only case that is close is the .223 Remington. I trimmed 100 of the .223 cases and ran them into a 7.62/7.63 full length sizing die. I neck expanded and loaded Unique powder with a 100 gr Hornady half jacketed bullet. I tried 2 different bullet seating depths and the both functioned well and were accurate. The velocity was kept down to 1300 feet per second.
This goes to show that shooters will usually find a way to shoot firearms that are chambered for obsolete rounds. Today, it is far easier and cheaper to buy 7.63 Mauser ammo than it was in 1993. Fiocchi is manufacturing calibers such as 7.63mm Mauser, 7.62x34r Nagant, .455 Webley, 8mm Roth, 9mm Steyr, 10.3 Italian revolver and many other rounds that were nearly impossible to buy in shooting quantities.

Attachment 77190

Left to right: Chinese 7.62x25mm, Czech 7.62x25mm, Winchester 7.63 Mauser case, formed 7.63 Mauser case from .223 and 2 different bullet seating depth cartridges.

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[browningautorifle]

Very comprehensive, as you say easier to get today than earlier. I'd still be moved to make and load my own because it's all about that part to me.

[RCS]

There was a company around 2005 that made special barrels for the CZ 52 pistols chambered for the 22 Reed Express. This was the 7,62x25mm necked down to use a 224 diameter bullet with
reports of 2200 fps with a 45 gr bullet

[Sentryduty]

.223 formed to 7.63mm? Now there is an idea, I need both 7.63mm and 7.62x25mm to feed a couple of pistols, that might be a way to keep me in affordable boxer primed brass.

[Doug Bowser]

It is work to make the brass but once made it is usually good for 6 or 7 reloads

[Sentryduty]

Do you recall your trim to length on the .233 to ensure it will fill the die correctly?

[Bruce_in_Oz]

I've seen this "reforming" caper done to feed a C-96, but that was quite a while ago. I don't know if the bloke who made the brass neck-reamed them.

Once the cases were fired the first time, there was a small, but quite noticeable, bulge at the rear of the cases. This just stayed there for the rest of the life of the brass. I think the bullets were 110gn ones used for reloading .30 Carbine. These are a bit heavier than the original Mauser or later Russian spec factory weight, (circa 85-90gn).

The CZ beasts are intriguing bits of machinery, being roller-locked for starters. They seemed to function quite happily with the "surplus" 7.62 x 25 ammo that has been floating around for decades now.

The "proper" ammo for the CZ-52 is seriously HOT. It is loaded with an 85gn bullet with a muzzle velocity of 500m/sec / 1640fps. Also used in the Czech CZ-25 / VZ-48 SMG.

This stuff is definitely NOT recommended for your great-grandad's C-96 or your “bring-back” Tokarev.

Using "cheap" surplus was a good thing, as these guns spit the empties out HARD, virtually horizontally to the right, and the cases travel quite a distance.

[Sentryduty]

The "proper" ammo for the CZ-52 is seriously HOT. It is loaded with an 85gn bullet with a muzzle velocity of 500m/sec / 1640fps. Also used in the Czech CZ-25 / VZ-48 SMG.

This stuff is definitely NOT recommended for your great-grandad's C-96 or your “bring-back” Tokarev.

My each of my TT-33's has been fed a steady diet of CZ produced bxn ball and had no ill effects. In Canada we had a glut of 2480 round cases of the stuff show up and since CZ-52's are a rarity, maybe 1 CZ 52 for every 100 TT variants, I would imagine that is how the majority of the ammo was consumed with no reported failures. It was my reading that the CZ-52 was the less durable pistol compared to the TT-33, but that could be mistaken. Our TT-33's are either fresh Russian refurbs, or new production units from Poland, Zastava, China, and Bulgaria/Hungary. Bring-backs aren't really a common item here so to speak.

Now C96's on the other hand, those are much less durable design, I had proper 7.63mm PPU loads break a bolt stop on mine, took ages to find a replacement.

[Bruce_in_Oz]

Re. the TT-33 and "variants":

They are tough little critters and I have fired a few using "random" batches of Chinese ball, without obvious ill effect to the gun or myself.

I was just concerned that the Czech loading as per the brass-cased, 1952 spec, might be a little harsh in them. It develops a couple of hundred feet per second greater muzzle velocity than "the other brands" in the same length pistol barrel.

Probably OK in your PPSh, though.

Because of its "interesting" mechanism, the CZ is probably less "soldier-proof" than the TT-33 and variants.

Recoil is a bit different from "old slabsides" as well.

[Sentryduty]

I was just concerned that the Czech loading as per the brass-cased, 1952 spec, might be a little harsh in them. It develops a couple of hundred feet per second greater muzzle velocity than "the other brands" in the same length pistol barrel.

I do know it is warmer than the S&B or other loadings, no doubts. Apparently reading from people's (internet FWIW) experience with the CZ-52 they tend to crack around the locking area, but I have never shot one to know myself. Not counting what the Russians put through my pistol between 1945 and 2008 when I got it, my bxn (1600 fps) round count is up over 1200 rounds without issue.

Here is an old video of the pistol, the footage is 7 years old and predates HD video. Which reminds me that I have to get out and film some new material using my modern quipment.



Gives a nice blast and is fun to shoot from such a small framed pistol, quite a bark too.