No4's Dropped to the French Resistance

[Richard Hare]

Many and varied arms were collected and dropped for the Resistance, and don't think anyone had the time or inclination to mark them in any way.
2 Webley revolvers of my G-fathers were handed in to be dropped for the resistance, one a .455" pre 1900 so likely a Mk 1, 2 or Maybe a 3, plus a .455" Webley Fosberry he had from his time in the Special Police in WW1.
Often wonder what happened to them.
This was back in Yorkshire.

[mrclark303]

Unless rifles were dropped as complete equipment (rifle, pull through, oiler and sling plus bayonet) I can't imagine they would bother .. after all, it's not like the standard spike was of any use for anything other than its "they don't like it up em" intended use.

I would imagine by far the largest amount dropped would have been mk2 Stens and 9mm ammo, followed by grenades and general explosives, then perhaps No4's and a few Brens.

I wonder what was supplied pistol/revolver wise?

[CINDERS]

If I could just ask another question were Sniper T's dropped into France I mean the transit case was built like a Brick S********* the scope was robust enough to survive a good thumping just curious whether the WD sanctioned letting them to be dropped just in case the Germans got their hands on them being a specialized weapon.

[browningautorifle]

Unless rifles were dropped as complete equipment (rifle, pull through, oiler and sling plus bayonet)

When doing air drop, it's all about weight. Also when loading an aircraft for transport, weight. Anything extra is just that.

pistol/revolver wise?

Whatever was available and not in demand at the moment I would expect...certainly not the very best.

in case the Germans got their hands on them being a specialized weapon.

Otto Skorzeny got hold of codes and was ordering Mk6S Stens from the UK and having them dropped to his designated dropzones. Doesn't get much more specialized than that...he demo'ed them to the upper ech but the way he did it caused the upper crust to refuse his ideas of this type of weapon.

[Flying10uk]

I think that there may be a photograph in existence showing a French resistance fighter holding a No4 rifle with spike bayonet attached but at the moment I can't remember where I may have seen it?

[Peter Laidler]

It is recorded fact that initially, the pistols dropped into Europe were the European calibres that came over in the shipments from US owners who gave them up in the "Arms for the defence of Britains homes" scheme. No good sending them .455's and .38's and the like - just readily available European calibres.

Their supplies were well regulated and the MI's dictated the policy quite thoroughly according to MRD Foote who uncovered the papers I referred to earlier. There was no stand and fight policy sanctioned and one group specified a PIAT to take a train on and that was barred. Destroy railway lines first. That stops 50 trains

[Gil Boyd]

I would probably have to agree with Peter's line of thinking. If you put yourself in the resistance shoes, their whole reason for being, was to be covert by their very nature, operating in complete secrecy, and unknown as clandestine operators, even to their fellow villagers and disrupt the enemy in their country using weapons of "far reach" lethal effect if possible when needed rather than CQB. Explosives placement was really their key method of operation.

Yes there may have been times where a good old Commando daggar had a place up close, but not a NO4 rifle bayonet IMHO.
Certainly not seen anything like that in the museums of Normandy where I will be heading on an official visit in June. I will ask the various Mayors who may know more especially if their relations still living can throw some light on it for you and let you know!!
The image shows the typical weapons and wants of a small clandestine unit

[mrclark303]

Thanks for the fascinating info and insight so far guys, we are starting to build a picture based on common sense.

If we go by the bulk of available images, most probably taken during or after the invasion of 1944, (because you would have to be certifiably insane to have a picture taken of your tooled up resistance cell before that point) the bulk of weapons seem to be Sten mk2's, MP40's and K98's with the odd No4.

It does give us a snap shot of the common small arms in use at that point in the war.

[30Three]

I have seen a few "resistance" weapons over the last few years, No4's and Bren's (all ,303). I was given a couple of clips of 1944 ammo from one of these resistance drops.
If looking to purchase a French resistance Lee Enfield; make absolutely sure that there are non of the British sold out of the service and proof stamps on it! It would be quite easy for a seller to pass off a bog standard No4 imported after WWII as a "resistance" piece to up the price. I'm certain that the real resistance stuff would still be marked as military spec; with the possible exception of a French (Saint Etienne) proof mark that may have been required when legalising the weapon.
However due to a change in legislation in 2012; it is easier to legally register these rifles today than prior to 2012. There are certainly still some to be uncovered!
Bren's and other automatics found today would need to be neutralised.
I'll ask if anyone knows of the bayonnets being dropped with the rifles.

[bigduke6]

All the best John, an interesting thread, but when you look at the capacity of the drop containers, I would of thought the Sten would of been No1 choice over the rifle, its compact,cheap and can use any 9mm ammo ( within reason)

I'm just reading a book (The Nazi Hunters) by Damien Lewis, regarding the SAS Op Loyton.......... I'm a very slow reader but when something takes my complete attention its read in a day or two, obviuos the last few days has taken the reading time away but an excellent book.