No4's Dropped to the French Resistance

[read6737]

From what I understand, It was a poem she knew.
It was to be used only when, or if she had destroyed her codes,
and identification was necessary by radio, I understand it was only her boss
may be a small number of others also who
I heard that the germans got hold of a poem and used it, I think they organised andair drop.
That is as much as I know.

[Gil Boyd]

Richard,
Leo Marks who is well documented wrote the poem in 1943 and the story behind it initially is again well documented and at the time of writing was not intended for Violette.

It was labelled a "One time Pad Cryptography", and it works because the code is created using an encoding document that was unique to an operation to be carried out, with the designated agent memorising the poem and using it as the key to a cipher that would ideally be very difficult to decode in the normal German way.

Often these poems were cracked by the Germans, because "we" British always used Tennyson/Keats or Byron or well known poets for example or parts from their works, to signify locations and various forms of attack which needed accomplishing in occupied France by a certain date.

Codes learnt parrot fashion in this way were often compromised following torture or interception on written material or via a third party. Leo Marks then decided to write his own poetry for SOE agents which caused the German encryptors headaches, as they trawled through the usual books and found nothing which you can imagine tooks days, and a well healed ex English taught German had to know his poetry if encryption was to prove successful............it was as simple as that!!

Leo Marks would never disclose what the poem referred to, so one has to assume after all this time it was a personal message

[read6737]

From what I understand, It was a poem she knew.
It was to be used only when, or if she had destroyed her codes,
and identification was necessary by radio, I understand it was only her boss
may be a small number of others also who
I heard that the germans got hold of a poem and used it, I think they organised andair drop.
That is as much as I know.

Posted seconds after Gill.
So mine is a little less interesting.

[Gil Boyd]

Read6737,
Not at all, it is on the same theme of Military accuracy and what we know today from facts given by those who used the codes.

It was a more personalised form of the delivery, rather then the usual Public Radio Broadcast one line riddles, made to each of the resistance groups from London each evening.

I only learnt about this particular poem from one of the great SOE ladies, as I too was very interested in its construction when I heard it.
The feeling was it was a message to one very very close to her on that occasion and nothing more, but I am sure when all the documents are released from MOD covering the brave work of this group, the original use will be disclosed.

[30Three]

For any members wanting to read more about the SOE girls in occupied France; I would suggest reading: A Life in Secrets: Vera Atkins and the Lost Agents of SOE .
It's a very interesting read.

[Peter Laidler]

There was a loooooong period when the operators were captured as soon as they hit the ground. They transmitted under duress/torture and even delivered the warning or abort codes that they'd been taught. To no avail................. SOE/MI9 just ignored their 'distress warnings' act on the corrupted transmissions and continued to send in more agents to their doom AND lose the aircraft on their way back to ambushes from night fighters. You couldn't make it up. There was a book written several years ago following the 75 year release of the documents. It implied that the French Resistance was so corrupted, not by themselves but by SOE/MI9 incompetence. Wise after the event or post-war arm chair experts?

[Flying10uk]

You do have to ask yourself the question if someone high-up in SOE, in the U.K., was in fact working for the Nazis? I have wondered about this for a long time. If true it would explain why so much was sent after it was obvious that parts of SOE in Continental Europe had been compromised by the Nazis.

[Seaforth72]

The best reference that I know of is CLANDESTINE OPERATIONS The Arms and Techniques of the Resistance 1941 - 1944 by Pierre Lorain 1983. Originally published in French as Armement Cladestin France 1941 1944 in 1972. Monsieur Lorain obviously talked to many Resistance people while writing his excellent book.

He wrote: "During the last part of the war, there arrived the first rifles" [Examples of rifles and carbines provided to the French Resistance shown in his book include the No. 1 MK. III*, No. 4 MK. I, & M1 Carbine.] "Submachine guns represented 47 per cent of total firearms; rifles 30 percent; automatic rifles [i.e. Bren Gun], 5 per cent; carbines 2 per cent; anti-tank weapons [e.g. PIAT], 1 per cent and pistols and revolvers, 15 per cent. ... The arrival of the Lee-Enfield Mark III* and No. 4 rifles excited the enthusiasm of those who could recognize and extremely fine weapon. It must be admitted that a Lee-Enfield rifle, by its mere appearance, inspired confidence and respect. Delivered with bayonets, they proved to the numerous Resistance fighters that they were now treated as soldiers instead of bandits." (page 135) [Comments in square brackets were added by me.]

"Rifle No. 4 ... The Canadian arsenals manufactured these weapons in large numbers. This is why the [French] Resistance force erroneously called all No. 4 rifles 'Canadian rifles' "
(pages 130-131)

S.O.,E.'s operations in Holland were compromised and the Germans were able to order whatever they wanted. Sten MK. IIS, Welrod etc. See LONDON CALLING NORTH POLE by H.J. Giskes.

Certainly if a rifle has post-war markings (e.g. "ENGLAND" or F.T.R. and a post-war year, then it would not be a war-time item dropped to the French resistance. A 1945 dated rifle would be highly suspicious, for would it have had time to be made, transported and dropped to Resistance units before their areas were liberated?

As always, "Buy the gun, not the story."

If you find a "Resistance rifle" in the hands of an old Resistance fighter or their family, or that can be directly traced back to such a person or in an arms cache, DOCUMENT IT! Include photos and serial number, as much information as possible, and have the document(s) signed and dated. I did this with a Royal Canadian Mounted Police No. 4 MK. I*. I traced back through the former owners to the original Mountie who had bought it surplus from the RCMP. Luckily he is still alive, lives an hour from my place. I photographed him holding it and had him sign my research document.

Having said that I do have a No. 4 MK. I that I was given and which had belonged to a late S.O.,E. agent friend of mine and I purchased his Lange Pistole 08 (Artillery Luger) and P-38 pistols from the estate. However I know that these were unfortunately all post-war acquisitions of this S.O.,E. agent rather than some supplied by S.O.,E.

[Gil Boyd]

Colin,
That book amongst many are a good read on the subject matter, and prove as many have, the research figures reported fairly accurately on weapons delivered in containers.
Interestingly enough and directly answering the original query on the post "lest we forget it" most speak of NO 4's being dropped towards the latter part of the war when DDay and the Rhine Crossing were in the planning stages 44 onwards.
It would have been great to see if they were indeed 4T's as opposed to normal rifles as everything I have ever been told by those that operated there points to using weapons as a last resort, to lessen compromise or capture, and if used at all, from as far away as possible.

[Gil Boyd]

Useful image of a group learning about the sten as cascaded down through the line.
If you ever find yourself travelling towards London on the A1 road at Tempsford seek out Gibraltar Farm..........fascinating as the RAF Lysander squadron tasked with taking agents in by that method operated from there for ALL operations. A tiny insignificant grass airstrip in Bedfordshire, where locals only knew it as a spotting or "recce" squadron.