50/70 and sling

[snell]

Just a quick note about an old soldier I've acquired. It's a 50/70 trapdoor Ser # 31854 (both breech and barrel), with an 1870 dated breechblock and a 1863 side plate. Overall condition is pretty good with a patina over most of the steel and a good stock with just a bit of the cartouche still visable.
The reason for the post is that the rifle has an interesting sling on it. The sling is stamped "Watervliet Arsenal" and a local collector told me that the sling may be worth more then the rifle.
Does this sound reasonable to you folks here? I believe the rifle is in nice shape and certainly is a good shooter. But now I am considering putting the sling up so it doesn't get damaged if it's that valuable.
Any thoughts? Thanks.

Art

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[drm2m]

Art,

In my experience well marked leather accessories in decent condition from this period are often more difficult to find than decent guns. ...i.e. holsters, slings, bayonet and sword scabbards, cartridge boxes etc.

If you plan to shoot the gun I would suggest you remove the original sling and keep it out of harms way.

Do your homework and find out more about the sling....the answers are out there but you will need good photos of markings and measurements of the sling to get a better sense of what you have.
There is a fellow that has a good web site for slings of this period with the correct measurements for an earlier gun like yours.
I could very well be a C.W. rifle musket sling that is correct for that gun?

Well marked slings are worth a few bucks...for sure!
As an example, well marked original, unaltered C.W. carbine slings are worth a bundle.
In the case of certain bayonet scabbards....they are worth more than the bayonets as the leather stuff did not always survive in good condition.....if at all.

David

The photos below show the markings on a M1887 sling.

"E.H.S." is for E.H.Schmitten Leather Goods, Rock Island.

[drm2m]

I like well marked leather stuff.

A ridiculous case in point….years ago I bought two knife scabbards
and I don’t think there is a hope in hell that I will ever
own the knife that goes with them.

How silly is that?

TWO LEATHER KNIFE SCABBARDS.

-Rock Island Arsenal-with inspectors initials W.T.G.
on leather (W.T. Goodrich) RIA on rear of brass hangar.

Model 1887 Hospital Corps Knife Scabbard.
—only 2000 of this pattern knife manufactured.



-Watervliet Arsenal----inspector’s initial
C.H. on leather Hunting Knife Scabbard.

Go figure?

David

[drm2m]

The point of this particular post relates to leather accessories.

Both of the bayonets shown below are of the Civil War era and are
"somewhat” rare ...and their values reflect this.

-Sabre bayonet for the U.S. Model 1841 rifle-A.K.A. -Mississippi rifle.

-Dahlgren knife bayonet.

In the case of these two bayonets the leather scabbards are in quite decent condition......which is not always what is found.

The leather has a huge impact on the collectability of these items. IMHO.

David

[drm2m]

Where leather accessories can get tricky....in this case...stitching on bayonet scabbards.

These scabbards are associated with the bayonets shown above.

David





The blades.

[rayg]

Those bayonets and scabbards are just beautiful.

Regarding the values of the slings for Trapdoors and also Krags. Same slings were used on both.
They usually sell for $100-$200 depending on condition. Original CW musket slings usually run, $200-$300, Ray

[snell]

David,
I am just green with envy, you have some beautiful items there

Ray,
Thanks for the heads up. The sling will come off the rifle and be kept safe and seperate so as to prevent any damage. Thanks alot

Art

[drm2m]

The Springfield trapdoor .45-70 rifle was equipped with the Model 1887 sling, as was the first bolt-action rifle adopted by the United States, the Krag-Jorgensen. This sling known as the 'Long Tom", was a single piece of leather 68 1/2 inches long. When the Springfield '03 was adopted it used the same Krag sling. However, it was redesignated the Model 1903 and would last just another year. In 1904 two new sling types were approved. In addition to the traditional metal claw and holes for adjustment these slings also had a metal button.

This reference came from something I found on the Internet.
“The Sling”- by Hap Rocketto.
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In my quest to find “leather accessories” to go with two of my C.W. guns I found the holster shown below which was designed to carry the New Model Remington and the Model 1860 Colt revolvers.

Date of manufacture 1863-1865.
Rear markings-- E. Gaylord, Chicopee, Mass.

It is increasingly difficult to find maker marked C.W. period holsters.

(Click on the bar to enlarge the images.)


























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David

[rayg]

David, I see you are into CW. Those are super nice original finish revolvers and nice leather. Good condition CW period leather is not always easy to find nor are the guns in the shape yours are in. Maybe you would like to check out my CW through WWII period set-ups here however my CW guns are not as nice, condition wise, as yours are though, Ray
My mannequin displays - U.S. Militaria Forum

[snell]

Well, I took the sling off the rifle and gave it a good review. It is 68" long x 1 1/8" wide. It has Watervliet Arsenal stamped into it but I saw no inspector's mark.
From what I've read so far it seems to be one of the slings made up by the arsenal from CW msuket slings but I can see no seams.

It currently resides inside the safe (off the rifle now) and will remain there for the immediate future. I wonder how rare this thig really is? Any ideas anyone?