This is my new Sten. There are many other like it, but this one is now mine...

[Vincent]

I have a Gemtech suppressed bolt carrier. It really reduces the blowback gas and the bolt speed. It also works great with subsonic 300 Blackout (7.62×35mm). GEMTECH 5.56 Suppressed Bolt Carrier

That's right. there is always a distinct and unforgettable heavy dull 'thud' as the bullet hits home. Preferably into someone else of course. Difficult to describe the actual noise........ a thud like smack - but you know it when you hear it again, even when fired into a sheep carcass

There’s a strange thing about that thud sound, Peter. You don’t hear it when you’re on the receiving end. You hear the whizzing of the ones that go by, but your mind somehow blocks that thud sound when you’re hit…. so I’m told.

[browningautorifle]

The military aspect was to simply remove the signature. Smoke, flash and blast. Once the location of the shooter was hidden, the supersonic crack misguided the searchers to look in different locations. It works well too.

[5 Commando]

That was the SOE silencer and described in the book. Your gun should never be fired on automatic with that silencer fitted. I seem to recall that the change lever was made so that it could not be moved to the A side.

The change lever - at least on this piece - moves between R and A. It fires smoothly in auto mode. I note your caution about no automatic fire with the silencer fitted. I stripped the weapon entirely for inspection cleaning and lubrication. The trigger assembly is identical to other Stens I've had, with a stamped sear, but with a shorter recoil spring.

---------- Post added at 10:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:10 AM ----------

You need a horsehair and canvas cover for that bad boy. Fit and finish seems very nice. Nice gun...

I know. I've got my agents out searching as we speak!

---------- Post added at 10:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:11 AM ----------

Nice gun but I do have some questions, I'm not trying to tear the story apart but I just wonder if that paint finish is original. It doesn't look like suncorite and I can't see any paint missing. Compare that to the silencer and they don't match, the silencer looks spot for what I'd expect and thought the patina on the gun would match. The other thing I noticed is the breech block doesn't show signs of being lightened but I know that it wasn't always nessisary. Also the ground welds look similar to what the Finns did to their guns, non of my STEN Mk2s except the Finn gun have ground welds.

Good points. The pics I posted may have been somewhat misleading. I chose the best angle to show off my new toy. Mea culpa. In fact the finish is original, and shows quite some wear on the receiver tube. I wondered also about the difference in patina between the silencer and the gun proper. Posed that question to the grandson who spoke to grandad and came back last night with an answer, and a rather fascinating little insight into WW2 underground operations. Apparently this silencer was heavily used by their particular unit for training purposes. This involved basic familiarization of the weapon and target shooting. The low noise signature allowed them to fire without attracting attention from ze Chermans. In doing so, the silencer was used on a number of different weapons, and aged at a greater rate than the original host weapon. Sounds plausible, as the barrel rifling is heavily worn almost to extinction.

---------- Post added at 10:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:20 AM ----------

Everyone is probably aware that they get hot, that's why the SOE MkIIS cans had this nifty spaced outer tube...theoretically removing the need for the canvas & asbestos or horse hair wrap. Not sure how effective it was, but certainly would be cooler than a Military MkIIs or MkVI can, and as repeatedly pointed out, these cans were/are not meant for full auto firing - which should significantly limit the heat build up.

Attachment 82136
Here is a photo of a disassembled SOE MkIIS can....note the inner and outer tubes.
Attachment 82138
note the (SOE ?) catalogue illustration, no fabric heat shield...
Attachment 82139
Attachment 82140
Note the Military Sten MkIIS & Mk6 can drawings, with fabric heat shields...



stolen from this excellent article
http://www.smallarmsreview.com/displ...articles=2360#

Thanks for the amazing pics. I had scoured the net but never came close to something like this. Very fascinating, and saves me from stripping the beast to look inside, although how long can resist that remains to be seen...

---------- Post added at 10:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:24 AM ----------

Yep!

All of that energy has to go somewhere! '"Wet" cans are an interesting study in themselves. Otherwise, you have to get rid of the heat via the mass of the muffler itself; as it heats up, it basically becomes less efficient, because part of the way a proper can works is by essentially cooling the gases and slowing down their entry into the atmosphere.

Then again, who is likely to still be "clandestine" after expending several mags of 9mm, even with a decent muffler? The "smack" of bullets striking, even at sub-sonic velocities, is not to be ignored, never mind the rattle of the action and the "tinkling" of the spent brass.

"Silent" they ain't: the whole point is to "diffuse" the muzzle blast that is the rather distinctive signature of "normal" shooting.

Interesting observations. At a point to be determined I will be taking chrono speed readings using subsonic 9mm. I will also film the firing operation and make a sound file with studio quality decibel recordings. In the process I plan on measuring the suppressor's heat rise with my handy infra red device that is usually employed to check if the coals are ready for my pizzas in the outdoor oven. I think the data on this silencer should be put on record for prosperity.

---------- Post added at 10:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:33 AM ----------

SOE silencer, what a wonderful thing to have! I would agree the gun has a very Fin rebuild look to it, any SA stamps anywhere?

Sorry, my mind must be slipping. Correction, it is slipping. Remind what SA stamps are?

---------- Post added at 10:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:34 AM ----------

I'd love to have one of those myself...or a correct M3...fun for the whole family.

Exactly. My thoughts exactly. The family that shoots together...

---------- Post added at 10:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:35 AM ----------

Thank you for posting the pictures. It’s an interesting gun and suppressor. The ground welds are consistent with other S Stens I have seen. Though I have never seen markings like that on the magazine housing. I don’t know if they are correct. All the ones I have seen have the S after the II on the top side of the housing.

The suppressor was clearly used with a thermal sleeve. The mottled spots mark where the sleeve was. I don’t see any signs of high heat… the change in colors you see when steel is heated to high temperatures.

Without seeing the internal parts I can’t tell if the suppressor is an original or a copy.

I guess a strip-down is in the future then...

---------- Post added at 10:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:37 AM ----------

Looks like your gun is from the first batch.



http://www.smallarmsreview.com/displ...darticles=2360

I had missed the small detail about the worn die. Rechecked the piece and indeed it is so. You guys are an amazing resource.

[Flying10uk]

Remind what SA stamps are?

Sometimes the Fins marked their weapons with their ownership mark of "S.A." but not always.

[tankhunter]

SA = Suomoi Army. Or Possibly 'Armee'....

[Brit plumber]

I think I'll eat my hat now. That article really proves this STEN as an early genuine gun. One thing this thread has raised is that the manuals are ambiguous stating in para that the guns are standard and then in another that they are specially converted. I think I know what they were implying but that's not how it should have been written.

[Peter Laidler]

I don't think that there's any need to back pedal BP. You've said what I've been thinkin'. I've been pondering this for several days now.......... The more I look at this gun scenario now, I'm thinking that the gun is in fact a standard Mk2 Sten. Fair enough. And the silencer and barrel assembly is/was not originally with the gun but they came together later, for reasons best known to 'someone'.
The SOE Stens I saw (and I only examined 3 or so) had distinctly lightened breech blocks as opposed to this standard - or barely lightened - if at all - breech block. And all had definately restricted change levers without the auto fire facility. Standard Mk2 gun fitted with an SOE silencer from another OR one dropped/shipped in for a one-way-trip job!

I'm no expert here but have seen a few hundreds and having a basic grasp of the mechanicals and physics of it all that's what I think. But like I always say, I could be wrong

[Vincent]

…. That article really proves this STEN as an early genuine gun….

I think the magazine housing is genuine.

The E.S.6(W.D.) SOE design utilized a deeper chamber where the bolt would make contact with the breech end of the barrel before the cartridge was fired, so the chamber pressure in full could be used to work the bolt to the rear. This design allowed the use of a standard bolt and recoil spring in the silenced Sten and a theoretical use of the silencing unit in any Sten Mk.II available. In practice the SOE silencing units also had reliability issues.

The deeper chamber seems to explain the standard breech block. But it also supports Peter’s thoughts that it’s a standard Mk2.

The magazine housing makes me think it’s an authentic “S”.

[Peter Laidler]

Mmmmmmmmmmmm not too sure of that para commencing 'The ES6(WD)..... '. Where did that statement originate Vince? I ask due to the principle of advanced primer ignition which is just a by product of a fixed firing pin in a blow back weapon. And guess what the Sten used? Yep, all 3!

Some silenced Stens had a radium filled dot drilled into the rear of the foresight blade and a similar radial filled saw-cut across the centre line of backsight. Not all, but a good starting point. Even if the radium had been removed the dot and line will be visible. Mind you, so will the radium for the next 200 years or so. Id did make the radiac survey meter click like a clapper box. But there again, so did my old Omega wristwatch!

[Vincent]

Mmmmmmmmmmmm not too sure of that para commencing 'The ES6(WD)..... '. Where did that statement originate Vince?

It came from this article http://www.smallarmsreview.com/displ...darticles=2360

If I am understanding the deeper chamber concept correctly, it would reduce or eliminate advanced primer ignition. The breech block would be in contact with the barrel and at rest where the fired cartridge starts to move the breech block back.

Maybe 5 Commando can verify the deeper chamber?