6.5mm/.257 Roberts

[GUTS]

When I bought this Type 38 carbine I bought a new stock from Numrich(the old one is pretty bad)and went out to shoot. I loaded five rounds, loaded and fired, cycled the bolt and fired again, that's when I noticed the piece of brass on the ground didn't look right, it looked like this:

After I got over feeling very stupid for not checking the rifle out better(thank goodness for the strength of the Arisaka action) I unloaded the rifle and went home to see what the deal was. I soon discovered that a number of 6.5mm Jap rifles had been rechambered in .257 Roberts. I did some measuring on the spent cases and found out it is a .257 Roberts. Since then I have shot the correct ammo through it and it does good, it will hit the 200 meter NRA rams every time from the rest. You would think that the .257" bullet would be a tight squeeze in a barrel made for 6.5mm(.2559")but it works, although it may be hell on the bore. I figured I'd post this so somebody else doesn't have to learn the hard way.
Here is the 6.5mm Jap bullet:

Here is the .257:


Here is the rifle, untouched Mum and matching numbers(wouldn't you know someone would screw up a full Mum, matching rifle).

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Impressive case photos. Obviously A1 case material. (BTW , who from? I would like to get some of those cases)

And I find myself wondering - why do some people get completely twittipated if their headspace is a couple of thou over spec?

Patrick

[GUTS]

This is the ammo.

[vintage hunter]

.257 bullet a tight squeeze in a 6.5mm bore? I think you have it backwards. I'm quite surprised your getting any accuracy at all. A 6.5mm bullet measures .263-.264 dia. while a .257 bullet measures .257. Appearently your gun's bore is just tight enough for the lands to grip the projectile. If you were to shoot it over a chronograph you'd see a lot of velocity loss due to blow by from the undersized bullet. The .2559 measurement is actually the BORE diameter for a 6.5mm barrel not the GROOVE diameter. Get yourself a set of 6.5/257 dies and use the correct dia bullets and you will get better accuracy.

[GUTS]

.257 bullet a tight squeeze in a 6.5mm bore? I think you have it backwards. I'm quite surprised your getting any accuracy at all. A 6.5mm bullet measures .263-.264 dia. while a .257 bullet measures .257. Appearently your gun's bore is just tight enough for the lands to grip the projectile. If you were to shoot it over a chronograph you'd see a lot of velocity loss due to blow by from the undersized bullet. The .2559 measurement is actually the BORE diameter for a 6.5mm barrel not the GROOVE diameter. Get yourself a set of 6.5/257 dies and use the correct dia bullets and you will get better accuracy.

Your right, I was thinking backwards, anyway I don't plan on shooting it anymore but if I do I'll take your advice, thanks.

[jmoore]

And I find myself wondering - why do some people get completely twittipated if their headspace is a couple of thou over spec?

Because they haven't experienced what happens when things ARE out of spec.! Copper/brass cases were adopted in the "way back" because they WILL adapt to a less than perfect fit.

A handy example:


VC version of a 7.62x39 in a crudely converted Japanese Type 38 rifle. (Fired case extracted from the rifle is shown on the bottom.) The case only APPEARS longer- optical "delusion"...

Too tight is generally worse than too loose!

[Bill Hollinger]

That is a beautiful rifle! WOW!!! Get the ammo straightened out and then have some fun with it.

[gitano]

Impressive case photos. Obviously A1 case material. (BTW , who from? I would like to get some of those cases)

And I find myself wondering - why do some people get completely twittipated if their headspace is a couple of thou over spec?

Patrick

FINALLY! Someone else in the world that understands what BS "dangerous headspace" is - OR ISN'T!

I understand this thread is 6 years old. However, the idiocy of "dangerous headspace" -especially with regard to milsurp rifles- still rears it's stupid head almost on a daily basis. Yet those same people that claim that civilization as we know it will cease, (or at least everyone within a 100 yard radius will DIE), if "you" shoot one of those "old" milsurps that have "excessive" headspace are the same ones that advocate "fire-forming" brass. Normally, I let stupidity alone because it is most often it's own punishment. However, in the case of "excessive headspace", A LOT of crap is being foisted on people by other people's ignorance.

Before the "yeah buts" come out, let me be clear about PROPER headspace:
1) CORRECT headspace prolongs the life of reloaded cases. (However, even when headspace is "excessive", PROPER set-up of reloading dies will mitigate that issue COMPLETELY.)
2) CORRECT headspace is an indication of quality machining and, in the case of milsurps, a chamber that probably hasn't been abused.
3) Correct headspace standardizes cartridge dimensions which is a 'good thing'.

HOWEVER - NO ONE EVER "died" or was even SLIGHTLY injured by a rifle with "excessive headspace". And to suggest that excessive headspace is dangerous is either stupid or deceitful.

Paul

[CINDERS]

Are we in a time warp or something that we have to resurrect a thread that is 6 years old we have moved on from this as over the years the headspace issues have been thrashed and probably will long after most of us are flashed and ashed that's if anyone is trained to repair rifles that by then some of which will be 170 plus years old...........................................Just nimble it and move on........

[andiarisaka]

A little tidbit I discovered with a couple Arisakas rechambered to 6.5x257 that I have is that the 6.5x57 made by PRVI and Sellier and Bellot can be chambered in the 6.5x257. Takes a bit of force to push the shoulder back, but case length is the same. I remove the internals from the bolt before sizing, put a little Imperial sizing die wax on the shoulder and give the bolt the oomph required. The amount of oomph can vary among different rifles. When ordering the Sellier and Bellot, make sure you don't get the rimmed version!