1942 SAVAGE No4MK1 T....w/telescope

[Peter Laidler]

You don't get better or more original than that..........

Information

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[Roger Payne]

Yes, nice! Still stocked up in its original birch. Of the various markings that became the standard on 4T's that were converted by H&H the S51 seems to have been applied regularly earliest on, viz this rifle.

[Lee Enfield]

Nice rifle, should be a 6groove barrel unless it's been replaced.

Attachment 89890

top is 5 groove (1945 dated brit), middle is 2 groove, bottom is 6 groove.

all numbered to their respective rifle

The top and bottom are MkI's the middle is a MkI*.

[Roger Payne]

I don't know of any figures re how many Savage's were scoped up, but I'd love to see some if they exist. From purely anecdotal experience I'd think most if not all of the Mk1 rifles & a proportion of the Mk1*'s. I have thinned out my collection of WW2 stuff a lot recently, but I've retained a 1941 Mk1 (scoped), a 1942 Mk1* (scoped), & a 1942 Mk1* (less scope).

[bros]

I don't know of any figures re how many Savage's were scoped up, but I'd love to see some if they exist. From purely anecdotal experience I'd think most if not all of the Mk1 rifles & a proportion of the Mk1*'s. I have thinned out my collection of WW2 stuff a lot recently, but I've retained a 1941 Mk1 (scoped), a 1942 Mk1* (scoped), & a 1942 Mk1* (less scope).

Ok....I'll stop searching!!! If DR. RP doesn't know the answer, it isn't likely out there!!

[Seaforth72]

Bros actually brought this No.4 Mk.I (T) rifle from Sudbury Ontario, several thousand kilometres/miles to Richmond, BC, Canada and allowed me to examine it. If he had been selling it, I would have bought it! I congratulate him on a great find.

I too have a Stevens-Savage No.4 Mk.I (T) though mine was converted at Enfield. The rest of my No4 (T) rifles are Long Branch made, but I have owned a number of BSA made H&H conversions as well as a 1931 Trials Rifle that was converted at Enfield.

The set that Bros acquired looks correct in all regards. The chest has the paper label with the matching pencilled serial number. The scope case No.8 Mk.I is matching numbers to both the rifle and scope. The three tiny swastikas do appear to be kill marks. They are very discreet and appear to have been there for a very long time. The seller made no mention of them and apparently was unaware of them. Some snipers did record kills on their rifles, although it was very uncommon. In the memoirs of a German sniper on the Eastern Front, he mentioned how he had recorded his many kills on his rifle. He lent the rifle to another sniper who was later captured. When his body was found ... well, let’s simply say that the Soviets did not appreciate the implication of these markings. I acquired for our regimental museum a Huot Automatic Rifle (full-auto Ross M-10 / Mk.III) prototype Serial Number 2. It was one of two taken overseas to France for testing in combat in the Great War and it has two very distinct notches carved into the butt - apparently kill marks.

As a platoon commander, I did find a swastika carved into an issued Canadian rifle’s butt, but as it was an FN C1A1 in the early 1980s, I determined right away that it was vandalism and let my strong feelings on care of weapons be known to the men of my platoon!

[jonh172]

Just wow.

[rayg]

What a great and complete original matching Savage sniper. Not only are original and complete sniper sets scarce but especially early Savage ones. I have not seen many of them. I feel fortunate to have a complete matching 44 BSA set an all matching and correct period Trials sniper, less matching scope.
The notches or kill marks on a rifle do carry a serious problem to the soldier if captured with the weapon. I have a correct M1A1 carbine with 3 apparent period original notches on the pistol grip. I would not of wanted to be captured with it, Ray
Attachment 89887

[bros]

Yes as Seaforth72 mentioned I noticed the 3 swastikas when examining the rifle before purchase....the gentleman did not mention them and I did not question him upon learning of them. The dynamics of the deal could have potentially changed so I thought it best to keep quiet. Some people get right crazy about stuff like that and think that whatever they are selling is worth another bucket of cash because supposedly Queen Mary touched it . I'm not saying that could have been the case in this deal, but one never knows and I wasn't about to find out. I have a strong feeling that he was unaware that they were there. I never bought the rifle because of the 3 swastikas....it bought it for what it is, they are just a bonus!!!

[Roger Payne]

It isn't just kill marks that soldiers carve into the stocks of their rifles. I used to own a nice Savage 1942 Mk1 4T that had the name of the owner's sweetheart or wife (presumably!) marked into the forend........the rifle is long since sold, but I seem to recall her name was Yvette. It's not an exclusively French name, but it's popular there........who knows, perhaps the rifle belonged to a French Canadian sniper, or it could have been one of the rifles air dropped to the Maquis.............