l42A1

[muffett.2008]

Not a real good pic, but the best I can do with this new fangled computer.
The rear retaining ring is the same as the No. 4, the barrel band is a similar shape also, but with a sharper apex.
If I find time tomorrow, I will take a couple of pic's of one
Attachment 93100

[cml]

Yes I can see the resemblance; it may have even been partly inspired by that look.

[sparky12130]

no one would happen to know the oal of the top timber? on i mine i beleive is off the 44 but is just a little to short.

thanks

[muffett.2008]

As promised. No.4 for comparison.
Attachment 93128Attachment 93127Attachment 93129

[desperatedan]

no one would happen to know the oal of the top timber? on i mine i beleive is off the 44 but is just a little to short.

thanks

The overall length is 295mm. The internal profile is a bit different as well and the barrel/sling band end is painfully thin in comparison to No.4 top wood. So pretty fragile as already described by Peter. Some pictures below showing original on L42, a new spare (C.Moon manufactured) and a new No.4 one. You could try and make one from a No.4 as the splice/joint for the extra piece would be under the barrel band.

Hope this helps.

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[Peter Laidler]

The Armourers could easily make new top handguards from No4 ones and I showed how easily it could be done. But the trouble was that when the workshops were highly civilianised in the late 70's onwards, everything was time managed so you couldn't afford to spend hours and hours on woodwork when time was worth £££'s. Nope, so the skills went at the same time. Same as patching generally. Especially the dire fore-ends........ One of my old Armourer friends showed me a wood-rim sterering wheel thatrhe'd just patched, repaired, re-rivetted and polished for his sons old Midget. They don't train people like that any more.........

[Gil Boyd]

Peter,
Agreed. I did the blacksmiths course recently and learnt that that to is a dying trade due primarily to the "cheap" production of gates etc bought from China and elsewhere at half the price, however, they don't last long when they are in the open, compared to a blacksmiths production of the same. But what a course and highly recommended for anybody who owns guns and metal, its amazing what you learn about metal/heat and of course yourself!
The other course was a Farriers one, always fancied having a forge in the back of a Landrover and turning up at famrs to shoe the horses.
So to find a good "specific" gunsmith is very rare. They normally only tinker out back, and sell out front in clean clothes!!

[Frederick303]

As regards the cost of labor and skilled gunsmithing, I would add a wee bit from the other side of the pond.

I live in an area that is pretty much a gun shooters/collectors/tinkers paradise, large amounts of arms, fairly cheap and free trade of long arms allowed with no added cost or time with transfer. Lots of older arms going back to the US civil war and a lot of arms from older collections in anti-gun states next to PA flow into our area. Should be a lot of gunsmiths to support the trade in older worn arms, but there are not. The price of skilled labor cannot be supported by market, new arms being so cheap. The result is the actual skilled tradesman I know who can re-checker an old stock, make a missing sight part, bed a rifle correctly or convert a No 4 upper handguard to a L42/L39 guard are all private individuals who do it for fun and not as paying propositions.

It really comes down to the customer, few folks are willing to pay the 50 dollar an hour shoptime fee required to support an ongoing concern with overhead. So smithing on older arms is really a task that comes down to skilled individual who trade time/skills with each other. There are more of such individuals around then one might expect, within 30 miles of me I know individuals that can rebuild a singe shot rifle from the ground up, Inlet and checker a stock that would equal the masters, restore any kind of finish on metal work on Mausers, Enfields, etc, none of whom have put out a shingle or take payment for their services.

I suspect that is true in all areas, the cost of manual labor relative to newly manufactured items makes repair of older items a less economically advantageous action then even 20 years ago. At the same time the vast quantity of information available on line makes it possible for a reasonable adept individual able to perform that that were formerly the realm of specialists.

That said I note the young chaps coming up, are for the most part pretty poor at such things nor do they take any time to master same. At 22 I was using a file and hand stamps to make adjustable rear sights for AK rifle, figuring out how to fix a revolver with timing difficulties and doing my first wood to steel bedding jobs, the young chaps today seem to think screwing on a set of sights on a Picatinny rail is high adventure.

[CINDERS]

At $50/Hr thats to cheap for a skilled G/S I think my G/S is around the $100/hr and my motorcycle mech at $120/hr

[Peter Laidler]

And plenty of them are 'monkey see - monkey-do' merchants with no real idea of the why's and wherefores of the reasons certain things are done in a certain way. It's called in-depth knowledge of the technicalities and what we used to call the 'rude mechanicals'. My friend wanted a load of butts making for a certain type of gun. I could write a book about the stupidity of the 'specialist' he chose.