for the Nat ord, Santa Fe shooters

[Bob S]

The pictures don't show any evidence of receiver failure. You can shoot with quite a bit of excess headspace and not have any safety issues UNLESS the case head is not properly supported. Case head support is marginal in any cone breech system. A defective case that blows out in any cone breech weapon will cause the damage shown. A seriously overloaded case will fail the same way and cause the same damage. Case head failures have occurred with Korean import surplus and caused the same damage in "perfectly good" USGI 03A3's and M1's. Prvi Partizan factory ammo has failed in the K-L-M area of the case and caused the same type of damage as what is shown. A similar failure would have caused a brittle low number receiver to shatter. The fact that this receiver did not fail is a credit to whoever made it.

I'm not a National Ordnance advocate, but to blame this failure on a poor quality National Ordnance receiver without evidence of receiver failure is irresponsible.

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[lovemymilsurps]

The pictures don't show any evidence of receiver failure. You can shoot with quite a bit of excess headspace and not have any safety issues UNLESS the case head is not properly supported. Case head support is marginal in any cone breech system. A defective case that blows out in any cone breech weapon will cause the damage shown. A seriously overloaded case will fail the same way and cause the same damage. Case head failures have occurred with Korean import surplus and caused the same damage in "perfectly good" USGI 03A3's and M1's. Prvi Partizan factory ammo has failed in the K-L-M area of the case and caused the same type of damage as what is shown. A similar failure would have caused a brittle low number receiver to shatter. The fact that this receiver did not fail is a credit to whoever made it.

I'm not a National Ordnance advocate, but to blame this failure on a poor quality National Ordnance receiver without evidence of receiver failure is irresponsible.

Resp'y,
Bob S.

the receiver did fail, i took out the barrel and where the front lugs lock was mashed in causeing excessive headspace. if it was the ammo at fault, i would simply rename it danchester as i would be the new owner of winchester. i will try to get a picture of where this receiver lost its ***.


here is a picture of where the POS national ord. receiver failed.....


look inside and see the shinney two lugs spots, they are where the receiver failed

[Chuckindenver]

so, i have to ask,
if you had the chance to shoot another Nat Ord made rifle. even one that looked great, and had been shot for years with no priblems.
would you shoot it???
or, would you tell the owner about your experiance, and tell him, its not safe to fire??

[Chuckindenver]

you are lucky the bolt didnt come loose, and hit you in the face..

[lovemymilsurps]

so, i have to ask,
if you had the chance to shoot another Nat Ord made rifle. even one that looked great, and had been shot for years with no priblems.
would you shoot it???
or, would you tell the owner about your experiance, and tell him, its not safe to fire??

I will say this, I will continue to buy N.O. 1903a3S BUT ONLY FOR THE G.I. PARTS. I WILL NEVER USE THE RECEIVER TO FIRE A RIFLE. and yes, i will certainly tell or suggest not to shoot the N.O. receivers

[Chuckindenver]

then, your experiance was worth the education.:} well said.

i was lucky, at a young age, i witnessed a N O fail at a public range, he left with a bloody face, and not on his feet.
i dont know what type of ammo, or how the rifle was set up for sure,. cal. ect.
but ill never forget, the look on his face.
for years, a gunstore i used to regular, had a N O on the wall, that was in bits..
and another that the DOW used to have on a board for display for the hunter ed classes..
and another that used to be displayed in a hardware store in Frisco Co..
they only made around 2000 rifles total.
with that many that have failed just in my small little spot of the world, id say thats bad odds.
funny thing..
iv never seen in person. a blown up SHT 1903. though i know they have failed as well.
ill shoot a SHT 03, but wouldnt ever shoot a NO or S A .

[Art]

A couple of thoughts.

First having the locking surfaces on the reciever peened to the point that the headspace is altered that much is, IMHO, a reciever failure. As has been mentioned above an M1903 or M1903A3 is more suseptible to that because the case head dosen't have the best support even with proper headspacing.

Second; had that failure happened with a burned low number reciever the results could have been even more catastrophic, not just for the shooter but for the people on either side of him. That's why I don't shoot next to a person shooting a low number M1903 and yes I have moved when I realized that was the case.

Finally as to cartridge cases. I have had cases of cartridge cases failing in two instances. One was a Winchester .38 Special +P load and the other was a .303 British Remington commercial load. In neither case did I realize I'd had a failure until I extracted and ejected the spent case, which was a challenge with the .303 (SMLE type rifles handle escaping gas beautifully.) It can happen guys, and with ANY ammunition.

[Jim K]

There isn't any strength difference between material that is sand cast or investment cast or lost wax cast. Nor is there any difference between castings made in Spain or China or the U.S. The only difference is in the material being cast, and in the quality control of the process.

I have pointed out that in my experience, those rifles proved OK, but I don't know of any that were fired enough to batter the receiver and create excess headspace. I know of none that "blew up like a grenade" or "receivers that shattered" as some writers have said.

Those pictures do clearly show a case head failure, possibly due to excess headspace, something some people say is a myth. If the rifle gradually developed headspace problems, it seems to me that any astute shooter should have been able to recognize them and stop using the rifle before disaster struck. (Sort of like never checking your tires, then blaming an accident on "baldies.")

Jim

[slamfire1]

look inside and see the shinney two lugs spots, they are where the receiver failed

Hate to be a pest, but could you take a picture where the peened receiver lug seats are in focus. I would like to save your picture and be able to show it to folks to explain what the problem is with these receivers.

[Chuckindenver]

unless your just arguing for the sake of the argument, your welcome to shoot all the NO and SFA rifles you like.
when it blows up,..remember, i told you so..
im suprised, that even with a pictures, and it being shot with factory ammo.
guys will still stand by them as being safe...but wont shoot a SHT 03...
baffles the mind i tell ya...
for the record. SHT 03,s should not be fired..even though i shoot mine..its my butt, and if i choose to be a dumbars. then thats my choice...
i would not shoot a SHT 03 with headspace issues, and yes, i gauge them.
other things not safe, but people still use them.
Pinto,s , mopeds that travel over 30MPH, 3 wheel ATV,s {most ride them in flip flops with no helmet.
20.00 hookers, {most are rode with no protection as well}, Pontiac Fiero,s .
meth, and other non natural drugs..
so, i guess it shouldnt suprise me, population control i guess, lol.