The 7th cav.

[lboos]

John, you seem to be a nice guy, But it sounds like you've been reading all the wrong book's, And that's what happens when people already have there mind's made up and dont want to be confuse'd with any fact's, Just PC of the day.
Any way, Our Country reburied him with Honor at West Point. The last i heard he is still there.....You think we ought to move him?

[John Sukey (Deceased)]

I can only refer you to Johhny Peppers post on the charges at Custer's court martial and the fact that he was found guilty on ALL counts.
I cannot bring myself to become an apologist for Custer when his peers at that time were NOT inclined to do so.

Yes he was reburied with honors, but one has to look at the political climate at the time and the newspapers crying about their "boy General" ( Lt Colonel) Better officers than custer wound up as captains and lieutenants after the civil war, even as NCO's when the army was reduced in size.

I assure you that when I was interested in that time period and collecting extensively I read MORE than one or two books about the fiasco. when I changed my interests, most of my collection went to a friend in the U.K. in return for Victorian uniforms and equipment.

[lboos]

John, You say,..Better Officer's then Custer wound up as Captains and Lieutenants after the civil war, even as NCO's...[Even as NCO's ?]. WOW. You make an NCO in the US Army sound about one notch below a savage Indian of the time, Who by the way we were at war with.

[Larry Gibson]

Custer had friends in high places. Deciding to make a quick trip to visit "Libby" was NOT a "mistake" it was derillction of duty. And he was deservedly smacked for it. If not for his connections, the verdict would have been a lot worse.
The fact that he is a hero to some is the direct result of the books his wife wrote about him after his death.

John

Not so, Custer was a "hero" well before his death and well before Libby started writing. His "heroics" (you chose to call him a "hero") were well documented and published during the Civil War and and after before his death at the LBH. Considering he defeated Jeb Stuart's cavalry several times and finally brought him down at Yellow Tavern there was not doubt about Custer being a "hero" to many. In the Shenandoah at Winchester Custer charged with 500 of his Wolverines, over ran an entire infantry brigade of confederates, captured 700+ prisoners including 52 officers, captured 2 artillerycaisons and seven Confederate Battle Flags. Because of that the Confederate defenses collapsed and General Early was forced to withdraw. At Tom's Brook Custer and Merrit defeated Rosser's Laurel Brigade and the rest of Early's cavalry and sent them packing in what is known as the "Woodstock Races". Custer continued to defeat Rosser's Cavelry at every turn. In October '64 Custer and 13 of his men were sent to Washington DC to present 13 captured Battle Flags to Secretary of War Stanton. Sounds like a "hero" to me and Libby didn't write a thing to make it happen.At Sayler's Creek Custer collected 31 more Confederate Battle Flags. Then on April 8th Custer learned of 3 railroad trains of ammo and rations at APPomattox Station. He not only captured those but led the 2nd Ohio in a cavalry charge that captured 24 cannons. It was Custers cavalry that blocked Lee's further withdrawal. It was to General Custer that Lee sent his officer with the white flag of surrender telling him Lee wanted to meet with Grant. Seems like all the trappings of a hero were made by Custer himself and had nary a thing to do with Libby's writtings. Pray tell, what renouned books is she credited with during the Civil War that make her husband a "hero"?

Larry Gibson

[Dimitri]

I'm going to agree with John Sukey, at best Custer was a idiot who got lucky for most of his time in command. At worse he was a opportunist who is directly at fault for the deaths of his men both through using them as pawns and ordering the death of them as his court marshal papers show.

He was unfit for command, why he kept command is beyond me.

Dimitri

[jon_norstog]

Guys,

I can see both sides of it. Actually I was more in the "Custer was a twerp" camp before i got involved in this same discussion on the old list. Larry is making a pretty good case there, but you got to balance that out against the weirdness at Trevillian Station.

My own thought is that Miles and Howard, maybe Sturgis and Terry too, were both better commanders in the Indian Wars. Howard especially, he respected the capabilities of the enemy. The Indians used to call him "Day After Tomorrow," but it was Howard's dogged pursuit of the Nez Perce that defeated them, and it was his caution that kept his men alive. In that war, Miles was the glory boy who dashed in at the last moment to claim the victory and all the glory.

Wait for my book, guys!

jn

[Larry Gibson]

jon

You might want to remember that the strategy for the LBH campaign was Terry's not Custers.

Larry Gibson

[Johnny Peppers]

This sums it up about a neat and concise as anything I have seen. If incorrect, please feel free to correct.

"General Philip H. Sheridan concluded that George A. Custer had made several important mistakes at the Little Big Horn. He argued that after their seventy mile journey, Custer's men were too tired to fight effectively. Custer had also made a mistake in developing a plan of attack on the false assumption that the Sioux and Cheyenne would attempt to escape rather than fight the soldiers.

Sheridan also criticized Custer's decision to divide his men into three groups: "Had the Seventh Cavalry been held together, it would have been able to handle the Indians on the Little Big Horn." His final mistake was to attack what was probably the largest group of Native Americans ever assembled on the North American continent. President Ulysses Grant agreed with this assessment and when interviewed by the New York Herald he said: "I regard Custer's Massacre was a sacrifice of troops, brought on by Custer himself, that was wholly unnecessary"."

[lboos]

The Political prostitutes of that time are about the same as we have today, They never change, Same with the press. They are always for our Military leader's as long as things are going the way the public likes it [Buying Vote's] But when thing's go wrong these same Political Prostitutes will say what ever the public want's to hear, And esp. if the other guy is dead and can't respond. How sick.
I cant remember where i read it but it sounds good to me,
Lt/Col. Custer is a Hero, And no political correctness will ever tarnish his name.
lboos.

[Larry Gibson]

I concur with Iboos.

Sheridan was covering his hind end for his part in the misguided strategy developed with Terry (Sheridan approved it and agreed that Custer was to lead the "attack" force of the campaign) and Custer was dead. Easy to see who to blame eh, just like Tuesday morning quarterbacking the Monday night football game. Lot different when your out there having to make the call. Custer was indeed a hero of the times. Too bad the "war is clean and nobody but the bad guy should get hurt and any good commander will bring everyone home" crowd doesn't see the reality of combat. Soldiers are pawns. Soldiers get injured and killed. If they do not you do not win. Custer used his soldiers as Terry and Sheridan used there's.

Pray tell, what is the difference of Sheridan dividing his forces into 3 sepertate columns or Terry further diding his forces into 2 spertate columns or Custer dividing his forces? If we use that logic the the COC is at fault because he didn't give Sheridan ALL the military forces the US had. Sheridan should have lined up all of Gibbon's, Terry's and Crooks soldiers shoulder to shoulder and just done a police call across the plains, my wouldn't that have been grand! Not hardly. Each commander at each level made choices based on tactics, strategy and divided his forces to accomplish the mission. Custer followed the tactics of the day at LBH. Unfortuneately his soldiers were, for the most part, not trained and experienced at what they were about to engage. Neither were Crooks which is why he was defeated at the Rosebud. Neither was Tery's which is why they got lost up Tullock Creek. It is also why neither Terry nor Crook, even as a combined force or seperately, could do anything effectively for the rest of the '76 campaign.

Larry Gibson