Odd 1903A3 / 1903A4 Trigger Pull

[browningautorifle]

Nice looking rifle Benny, love to bring over a box of match and see how it prints...

[Cosine26]

Here is a picture of a M1917 trigger. I do not have a M1903/03A3 trigger for comparison but I put a ruler down so you could see the size. From your picture, I believe that you have a M1903/03A3 trigger manufactured by Remington (the "R" stamp is the clue). Note that the M1917 trigger is thinner where it enters the sear, but there is a step at the bottom to fit the trigger guard-why? I do not know. The Brits sometimes design some odd things.
Hope this helps. I still believe that our receiver has been altered to accommodate the Tmney trigger.
FWIW

Imgur: The magic of the Internet

[WaffenJäger]

FWIW,

Thank you for the information. However as I have stated in my prior posts I know I have an M1903/03A3 trigger assembly. The M1903A3 square faced sear was delivered today & I will take the blued Remington manufactured 03A3 trigger off the current Remington manufactured sear & see what happens (doubtful at this point & I will get as to why).

I know 100% what an M1917 trigger, sear, or trigger assembly looks like so I never guessed that to be the problem. However, I truly appreciate you taking the time to chime in & send all this information my way! Thank you! Since we're talking M1917s, that is what I am on the prowl for at the moment. Currently looking for an Eddy manufactured between 1917-1918 & in it's original state (as much as it can be that is). If you know of any leads already let me know.

At first I thought it may be the sear, then thought it could be the trigger, then became somewhat baffled because of the issues I was experiencing, but now I have confirmed that the receiver has been altered (from what I can tell). I will post photos within the hour. I have a few routes I am going to go to remedy this issue but I would like everyones input regarding my receiver first.


Semper Fidelis,

Benny

[WaffenJäger]

Gents,

I will be providing more photos on top of these here shortly. This is what my receiver looks like with the USGI Remington 03A3 trigger assembly installed.

I believe the receiver has been altered for the Timney. More photos will be posted after this post.


Semper Fidelis,

Benny

[WaffenJäger]

Gents,

Below are photos of my receiver without a trigger assembly installed. All feedback would be appreciated. I have not done the research I wanted to as of yet in regards to what the receiver should look like in this area, but I do believe it has been altered. There are prominent areas that are in the white & there are noticeable machining/grinding marks.

The last photo is with the culprit installed (Timney). What irritates me the most is why someone would want to alter their receiver to put in an aftermarket trigger group. Milsurp "collecting" if you will is about saving history, not altering. Yes this M1903A3 is altered to be an M1903A4, but thats all good clean fun in my opinion. Turning an M1903A3 into an 03A4 is an acceptable alteration (especially when you don't have a few grand to shell out for an original or aren't lucky enough to come across an 03A4 sporter in a pawn/gunshop where peeps are clueless), not a blasphemous one such as grinding out your receiver to throw in a non WWII USGI trigger assembly. Turning K98k's or M1903A3's into sniper variants will always be enjoyable. It's about the journey & the build, but to each their own.


Semper Fidelis,

Benny

[WaffenJäger]

Nice looking rifle Benny, love to bring over a box of match and see how it prints...

Jim,

Thank you for the good vibes. You're not all that far from the North Woods (Minnesota). Come on down! But the box of match won't get you too far without a properly working trigger assembly


Semper Fidelis,

Benny

[WaffenJäger]

If you have another 03/03A3 examine and compare the slot where the sear comes up through the receiver. Some early Timney triggers had an long sear and required opening up the slot to the the front to allow the Timney sear to enter the slot This took away some of the receiver that acts as a fulcrum for the trigger to pull down the issue sear. I do not believe that it happens on later Timney's but do not know. The enlarged slot requires that the trigger be pulled further o drop the standard sear - only possible when the action is out of the stock.m Hope this helps.
FWIW

FWIW,

I forgot to include a photo of the Timney trigger out of the action so I will throw one up tonight. However, the Timney that came installed on the M1903A3 when purchased has an excessively long sear. So, with that being said & the condition of the receiver where the original USGI 03A3 sear sits it is safe to say that the receiver has been "Bubba'd" to accept this trash aftermarket trigger.

I have a few things in mind I'll do.

1. Easy Fix - Purchase another trigger guard (blued) & remove approximately 1/8" out of the trigger cut-out within the trigger guard so that the trigger assembly can function as is with the WWII USGI sear. I would just have an abnormally long trigger pull. Not ideal but this would be the easiest fix as of right now.

2. Easy Fix - Possible - I will have three USGI sears laying around. Is it possible & safe to take down the sear enough to allow proper function of the trigger? Not ideal & not what I would want to do. I may do this just to see what happens.

3. Easy Fix - Add metal back to receiver & finish this area properly so the USGI trigger assembly has a proper fulcrum to allow for proper trigger function.

4. Purchase a WWII USGI M1903A3 receiver & tap for Weaver 330.

Thought?


Semper Fidelis,

Benny

[Cosine26]

That is an extremely long cut out for a Timney trigger. I wonder if someone tried to install a set trigger assembly that required an extra long cut out. Below I have posted a picture of a Timney sear, and while it does require some removal of metal from the front of the slot, it is no more than 1/16 inch. Later Timney and other commercial sear release triggers did not reqire any cuto out. I have used later Timney, Dayton-Traister and MK II commercial riggers that required no modification to the receiver.
Imgur:
https://imgur.com/a/X5rmHp1
The magic of the Internet
I think that to repair the damage would require a very skillful person and be very expensive procedure. If the Timney trigger works in the action I would suggest that the easiest approach and most satisfactory would be to reinstall the Timney and sell the action, acquire a new unmodified action and start over. I believe that Chuck will tell you that to repair the present action would be expensive, extensive and maybe not fully satisfactory. Personally I do not believe that any standard sear and trigger could be made to work satisfactorily with the present action -though I could be wrong. I believe that to make it work, you would have to modify the stock and original M193/03A3 stocks are becoming hard to find and expensive.
FWIW

[Randy A]

I've ran into that before, it's easier to fix than it looks.

[WaffenJäger]

That is an extremely long cut out for a Timney trigger. I wonder if someone tried to install a set trigger assembly that required an extra long cut out. Below I have posted a picture of a Timney sear, and while it does require some removal of metal from the front of the slot, it is no more than 1/16 inch. Later Timney and other commercial sear release triggers did not reqire any cuto out. I have used later Timney, Dayton-Traister and MK II commercial riggers that required no modification to the receiver.
Imgur:
https://imgur.com/a/X5rmHp1
The magic of the Internet
I think that to repair the damage would require a very skillful person and be very expensive procedure. If the Timney trigger works in the action I would suggest that the easiest approach and most satisfactory would be to reinstall the Timney and sell the action, acquire a new unmodified action and start over. I believe that Chuck will tell you that to repair the present action would be expensive, extensive and maybe not fully satisfactory. Personally I do not believe that any standard sear and trigger could be made to work satisfactorily with the present action -though I could be wrong. I believe that to make it work, you would have to modify the stock and original M193/03A3 stocks are becoming hard to find and expensive.
FWIW

FWIW,

Problem solved. I received another USGI 03A3 trigger assembly (square faced sear Marked "R" on the left hand side & a "2" inside of a Square on the right hand side / Remington manufactured / unmarked trigger with a truly smooth face / does not have the raised line down the center of the trigger that 03A3 triggers have & the profile seems to be minutely different / what trigger?) & to my amazement this somehow solved the issue. I threw this trigger assembly in & the trigger pull is remarkable. The weapon now functions properly with a proper & crisp break (very smooth 2 stage). It baffled me. So I decided to punch out the trigger pin on this square faced 03A3 sear & threw in my blued 03A3 Remington manufactured trigger & it would not fire (same issues as before. Sear could not be pulled down enough to drop cocking piece). Once again, baffled. I then proceeded to take that Remington blued trigger out & I put the unmarked blued trigger that came affixed to the sear back on. The oddest thing, but for some reason this specific trigger assembly properly works in my M1903A3.

Just as the WWII TM states for the M1903A3 (I'll poorly quote it): That you may mix triggers, sears & sear springs, cocking pieces, etc., around until you find a desirable trigger pull (granted my receiver has been altered). I think I have done just that Honestly, thats what I was hoping for when ordering all these different triggers, sears, sear springs, cocking pieces, etc..

WAR DEPARTMENT TECHNICAL MANUAL
TM 9-1270

ORDNANCE MAINTENANCE

U.S. Rifles, Cal. .30, M1903, M1903A1, M1903A3 and M1903A4
20 January 1944

(2) "Should the action still be faulty, it will be necessary to interchange the parts until a combination of cocking piece, sear and sear spring, trigger, and mainspring is found which will correct the difficulty. The probable importance of these various parts in the perfection of the trigger pull is in the order given. A number of parts should be tried in their various combinations until a satisfactory pull is obtained."

I'll get some rounds down range & see what happens.

Lastly, I could easily throw the Timney back into this action but thats not my cup of American GI Joe. If it isn't USGI, trash it. It seems to be the easiest fix but I would rather purchase a new receiver & start over from scratch. Also, the WWII USGI Scant Stock that was on previously had the trigger area cutout for the Timney. I would have to cannibalize my minty, original, WWII USGI M1903A4 stock to run that Timney & that I want no part of. I would shed a tear or two.

Thank you for keeping me sane during this ordeal because those first few days I looked right past my altered receiver.


Semper Fidelis,

Benny