The M1 Carbine concept fully developed

[imarangemaster]

The Mini's biggest problems are a lot of myth mixed with grains of truth.

i.e. Mini-14s (and 30s) are very inaccurate weapons. Early Minis had a pencil barrel, and after the heated up, they would vertically string. I never had a problem qualifying with the Mini, because we were not doing mag dumps! We did 10 rounds for qual, and it did fine. After about 20 rounds, if fired in a mag dump, they got less accurate, but still stayed under 4 MOA (which would be considered alright for the average AKM!). Both my 583 series minis (a 14 and a 30) do sub 2 MOA with iron sights and decent ammo, with the newer, heavier, tapered hammer forged barrels. Both will break clay pigeons on the ground at 100 yards, and both with ring the 200 yard, 12 " gong regularly. Early ones can have that accuracy with the installation of a barrel strut. I turned a pencil barrel 196 series into a 1.5 MOA shooter with a strut.

Mini-14s are unreliable: L. James Sullivan (the actual design engineer of Armalite who designed the AR15) scaled down the M1 Garand/M14 action for Bill Ruger to create the Mini-14. That is one of the most reliable battle rifle designs ever invented. The weapon is absolutely reliable IF you use Ruger factory magazines. The majority of aftermarket Mini magazines are junk , with the exception of John Masen, PMI, and USA Magazines (all three now defunct) and OE (Original Equipment Company - a division of Metalform), and KCI Korean Mini-30 mags. I have 100% reliability out of both my Mini-14 and Min-30 using Ruger factory magazines, and that's after about 600 rounds through each in the last two months.

[imarangemaster]

Here is an evaluation of the two I posted on the Perfect Union: I now it is a bit off topic, but I think the members would be interested.

Took the boys out this morning and decided to burn some powder. I do not shoot paper past a 25 yard battle sight (of about POI about 1.5 inch above POA). With the Mini-14, that gives me dead on at 225/250, and no more that 3" above line of sight. The same sight picture gives the Mini-30 dead on at 200/225 yards.



Mini-14
Blue with factory Wood stock and ASI matching wood handguard. Front Wilson 1911 buffer, and rear Black Jack Mini-14 buffer. .050" ASI gas bushing. Shooting with factory ghost ring rear and post and wing front. Fired 100 rounds Federal/Lake City M193 white box from 5 different Ruger factory 20 rounders: two are 091494 LEO marked, and three are pre-1994. Factory magazine springs.

Got a 3 round clover leaf of about 1/2" diameter at 25 yards, and was breaking clay pigeons 100% at 100 yards, and the 12" gong at 200 yards. Brass went 10 to 15 feet at 2 o'clock. It is my house and ranch defensive carbine.

I have fired about 600 rounds total through the Mini-14 since I got it a couple months ago, with zero malfunctions using only Ruger factory magazines (5s, 10s, 20s, & 30s). I have used Lake City M193 55s, lake City M855 62s, and IMI Razor MK262 MOD1 77s.

Mini-30:
Stainless with factory Wood stock with Choate handguard. No front buffer, and rear Black Jack Mini-14 buffer. .10" factory gas bushing. Replacement firing pin trimmed to .041" protrusion for Russian. Shooting with factory ghost ring rear and post and wing front. Used Ruger factory 10 and 20 round magazines. Used 200 rounds of Ulyanovsk 124 HP 8M3 and 100 rounds of brass handloads with a Nosler .310" Varmagedeon 123 grain over 24.5 grains IMR 4198. Brass went 10-12 feet at 2 to 230 o'clock.

THe Nosler loads were freaking Awesome ! A cloverleaf for 3 rounds, just about as small as the Mini-14 got with M193. The 8M3 was about a 3/4" to 1" for groups at 25 yards. The Nosler groups busted clay pigeons at 100 yards 100% of the time, as did the Uly, but had a couple close misses with the Russian. Function was 100%. Out of 200 rounds of 8M3, there were no FTFs. No perforated primer on the brass cased Nosler reloads. .040/1" seems to be the sweet spot to ignite Russian primers 100% and not perforate brass cased ones..

I have now fired about the same amount (600 rounds total) from the Mini-30 since I got it last month, with only one FTF of a Russian cased round at about round 100 of the 600, which was BEFORE I fitted a longer firing pin. When I first got the Mini, I had a Wilson 1911 front buffer on it for the first 10 rounds, but it caused short strokes. I removed it, and it has cycled perfectly for the last 590 rounds. Magazines have all been Ruger factory (5s, 10s, 20s). Ammo has been Chinese lacquered steel case (40 rounds), Tulammo 122 FGMJs (100 rounds), Ulyanovsk 124 HP 8M3 (310 rounds), and my Nosler/IMR 4198 reloads (150 rounds).

Conclusion:
I am sure I could do better with a glass on either one, but these are strictly close up and personal iron sighted weapons. The Min-14 for the ranch and the Mini-30 for behind the 4x4 truck seat for the woods and mountain. I have a .308 PTR91 with a Redfield Revenge 3x9 BDC scope if I want to shoot past 100/200 yards at trolls, goblins, zombies, or raving insurrectionists.

They have demonstrated absolute reliability to me, and good solid sub-2 MOA accuracy which is good enough for my self defense purposes. I am NOT a sniper, nor am I fighting a war...(though the Mini would be a viable option for the later, if you were in a pinch!)

[imarangemaster]

Just an update: I replaced the 583 series Mini-14 with a 186 Series made in 1996. It has a 1/7 twist barrel, unlike the 1/9 of the new 583. With that I can get the most from the 77 grain OTMs that maximize the 5.56 potential. As you can see, I replaced the original ramp front sight with the M1 Carbine style post and wing sight from a new 583. This is my M1 with a stiffy!

[USGI]

Pretty slick, but I've got a couple questions: What year did they start putting the ventilated handguard on these, and why does the front sight sit so far back from the muzzle? I had a Mini-Thirty made in '02 and the front sight was located farther forward. - Bob

[imarangemaster]

They stopped wood handguards in 1983 or 1984. Mine was made in 1996. I got a replacement wood handguard from Accuracy Systems. for $69. The front sight is from a 583, and they have the groove in the top of the barrel for the sight roll pin closer to the muzzle. This one had the ramp sight, which was set back from the muzzle farther, because the ramp sight unit is longer. I used the same grove, so the sight is back father, All Mini-14 barrels (except the tactical) are 9/16" (562"), so the modern sight slides right on. The very end of the barrel is just a tad over .5", so I may turn it down and do a 1/2x28 thread job for a muzzle brake. Mini-14s from 1973 to 1986 were 1/10" twist, then until 1997 were 1/7 twist like the Colt Sporter II, then in 1997 shifted to 1/9 (also like Colt did about then.).

I wanted a 1/7 twist Mini-14 for a long time so I could shoot my MK262 MOD1 to best effect. I have an Accustrut, but it adds over half a pound to the Mini. As shown the Mini weighs 6 pounds, 15 ounces. For my shooting under 100 yards, I don't need the Accustrut. I leaned off the back deck, and at about 100 yards hit a softball sized rock with one shot of the 77 grain OTM 5.56 loads...Good enough for me.

[browningautorifle]

I leaned off the back deck, and at about 100 yards hit a softball sized rock with one shot of the 77 grain OTM 5.56 loads...Good enough for me.

We've had discussions here about their inaccuracy but I found at 200 I could stand and bang the gong all I wanted...compared to others that I couldn't.

[imarangemaster]

Jim, that is so true. I could easily hit our 200 yard gong with either the Mini-14 or Mini-30 with iron sights and red dot. I was never abe to do it with ANY AK pattern rifle, even a Saiga. Heck, I could even do it with the Inland M1 carbine!

[browningautorifle]

They always had the smack of a solid hit too...I liked them.

[imarangemaster]

I took the Mini to the indoor 25 yard range just to check zero. Dailed it in pretty well, and called it good. Today was a break in the week of blessed rain in Nor Cal, so I decided to fine tune at the 25 & 100 yard outdoor range. I can never get a good sight in with the indoor lighting and lead sled at the indoor.

First up was the MK262 MOD1 (IMI Razor). It required one click to the left. Nice little cluster on an M1 Carbine 25 yard target. Then I tried my clone load: 77 grain Custom Competition Nosler over 25.2 grains BLC(2) WITH A CCI #41 primer in .223 federal cases. Bingo. Correctly overlaid the same little group as the MK262 MOD1.



Then I switched to 100 yards, shooting clay pigeons and pop cans. alternating MK262 and Clone loads every other shot. Bingo again! set the pop can or clay pigeon on the front sight with a 6 o'clock hold, and it was a solid hit on both pigeons and cans. (I never do paper with iron sights at 100 or more, as my eyes don't seem to do well. Hitting a pop can at 100 with iron sights would be a solid hit on a Goblin sized target at 200 or more!) The clay pigeon or can is instant gratification. Our 200 yard is closed because the "Friends of the Chipmunks " got an injunction against us. (We can't use steel targets anymore, nor shoot past 100 yards).

Then I switched to M855 Lake City 62 grainers. same hits at 100 as the 77s. On a whim, I did some 55 grain M193 Lake City (which was lousy in the indoor range) and was totally surprised. I was still hit cans and stuff at 100 yards. Hmmmm. Looks like this little baby likes everything. Did about 200 rounds again, and did not notice any problems. I was hitting cans at the end as well as the beginning.

Then I pulled out the PCC9 with Glock mag adapter. I had a problem with the red dot so I switched back to irons. My load of choice for it is the Federal 9BPLE +P+ Illinois State Police load...about 1550 fps from the PCC9. After a minor sight adjustment, I was actually hitting pop cans at 100 yards with iron sights. At 25 yards I was hitting pieces of clay pigeons.

A great day at the range!

[USGI]

I picked up a PC Carbine a couple days ago and just ordered some Glock 15 rd mags for it. Glad to know it's possible to hit stuff with one! - Bob