The Japanese Garand

[mrclark303]

Evening all,

I was just reading up on the fascinating late war Japanese reverse engineered Garland.

My 1962 edition of Small Arms of World book mentioned they were rather poorly made with violent recoil...

I guess these rifles are very rare, I don't suppose any of our members have had the opportunity to inspect one?

Information

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[Bob Seijas]

The quantity made is in dispute but the Type 5 is well known. There are several in collector hands, maybe as many as a dozen. I chased them for years... I wanted to pay $800 when they were $1,000 -- then when I was willing to go the thousand they were $1,500 and on up from there. I never got one, now they bring something like $20K

[RCS]

Some if not Japanese copies of the M1 Rifle were chamber for the 7,7x57mm cartridge which was unique to this Type 5 rifle. Why the change by 1 mm is unknown as the standard service cartridge is 7,7x58mm. I have a photo of a clip of 7,7x57 that I will try and postAttachment 98394

[CINDERS]

Nice one RCS envious I is....

[mrclark303]

Thanks for the responses guys, I must admit im playing catch up with this one, I had no idea they modified the service cartridge too.

I would hazard a guess the fractional reduction in case length was to aid possible extraction related issue.

I can't see what difference 1mm would really make, but perhaps just enough.

The suggestion of violent recoil in my book, would certainly suggest a good deal of refinement was still required and must have been a handful to deal with, considering the relatively small build of the average Japanese soldier.

Anyone know how many were made?

[Bob Seijas]

Amounts vary but Wikipedia says: At the time, only 100 guns were completed out of the 250 in the workshop. Twenty of them were taken by the Allies at the Yokosuka Naval Arsenal on Honshu after the end of the war.
Most guesses that I have seen in the past say 50 made and parts for 50 more that were not completed. That sounds more reasonable based on what has been seen.

[RCS]

I recall reading that the Japanese Navy was involved with the change in the cartridge to 7,7x57mm which used a 173 gr bullet. Also recall some incomplete examples of this rifle in some collections. The Japanese would have captured both the gas trap and gas port M1 rifles starting with the Philippine invasion in 1942

[rcathey]

I’ve always wondered why they’d bother reinventing the wheel.
“Hey, that’s a great design. We should start making 30-06 and the guns to go with it.”
Seems a lot easier to make a different ammo than to make a whole new autoloader.

[browningautorifle]

“Hey, that’s a great design. We should start making 30-06 and the guns to go with it.”

I often wondered why they didn't just start making them as was...almost direct copies.

[RCS]

Not that easy to copy the Springfield M1 rifle - IHC had problems in the 50's and they (IHC rifles) became the favorite gift to the third world nations.

But you really have to credit Winchester, during the 1939 - 1941 time period, they were working on their own 30-06 semi auto, developed the M1 carbine
and started manufacture of the M1 rifle, and it worked !