Lee Sporter

[rcathey]

I paid £700 for it which isn't a lot so any "plunge" in value is effectively minimal.

All perspective I guess. That’s about $915 USD which sounds like a lot to me haha.

To borrow a joke from Eddie Murphy back before he was in kids movies, “if you had $5 and had to give someone half you’d be upset!”
I must imagine this would be a similar case.

So if 700 pounds isn’t “a lot,” how’s 350 sound?

I’ll leave with one last quote:
Sporterizing: the process of spending $300 on a $200 rifle to turn it into a $100 rifle.

[Daan Kemp]

Period scope mounts for a rifle made in 1898? Highly unlikely, I doubt very much if they realised hunting rifles could really be fitted with scopes then.

Telescopes of that period were known for being relatively delicate, fogging up for no reason, excellent examples of parallax, lack of focus, blurry images, etc and wouldn't normally be fitted to a hunting rifle; which in normal use would need frequent repair and might not last the hunting expedition.

[englishman_ca]

Do you know as to what scope you will be mounting with regard to tube size?

Most of the older scope mounts I see seem to be 7/8 inch.


This is my truck gun with a Weaver detachable side mount with a 1 inch Weaver K2.5. Ya, the rifle is a beater, but the scope and mount hold up to some pretty rugged use. The scope can be quickly removed and is true to its zero when replaced.

[RobD]

Mike, £700 is a really good price for that. Lee Speeds were made in different "grades" of quality of finish and I think yours may be the top grade.
A word of advice - one I've given before on a few occasions, so please forgive me if it's not new: don't 'scope a rifle unless you [or someone else] can get tight groups with it. A scope doesn't make the rifle more accurate, it just makes the target look bigger.
If your rifle is intrinsically accurate [i.e. groups well] and you do decide to have a scope fitted, I would recommend Phil Rose who has scoped 2 rifles for me and is honest, reliable and skilled. PM me if you need Phil's details.
As far as the correct ammo, I find in my long Lees the best results are to replicate the Mk II .303 round: a 215 grain jacketed bullet e.g. made by BES bullets [not cheap] email mseller208@aol.com and 30 grains of Vihtavuori N140. A cast bullet of similar weight may do just as well, much cheaper; you could get some from Peter Watson MME Custom Rifle Bullets index Email: mment340@gmail.com
Rob

[Jc5]

Mike,

Congrats on getting this rifle at such a good price! It believe it is worth much more than what you paid. But let me join the chorus of others here asking you to please not drill into it. It is not a matter of losing value (which is a certainty, but you don't have a lot of money in it). It is more a matter of wrecking something that has some historical value.

Consider:
1) It is an original Lee-Speed sporter in nice shape, which is uncommon to start with.

2) It is a No.1 Pattern, the highest grade offered, making it even more rare, and was originally expensive for someone on a middle class income.

3) Rarer still, it is from a known (and interesting) maker, F. Beesley. A minority of Lee Speeds are marked with a maker's name. Knowing the gunmaker adds to the story of this particular rifle.

4) It is inscribed to a known owner, even more rare, and very interesting.

5) It has a date! Very few Lee Speeds can be pinned down to a known date. Do know how many such rifles I have struggled to find dates for, based on markings, anecdotes, and crumbling ledgers? And yet here is yours plain as day.

6) Furthermore, the date is pre-1899, which for U.S. collectors is highly prized, because those are categorized as antiques and not treated as firearms by Federal law, allowing them to be transferred and shipped to any law-abiding recipient anywhere in the U.S. (with some exceptions, consult your lawyer!) The value increases greatly should you ever decide to sell to an American collector. Furthermore, pre-1899 Lee Speeds are far less common that post-1899 examples.

7) There is really no need to chop up this well-preserved and interesting rifle. There are so many other Lee Enfields out there that you can scope more easily and without any hesitation about wrecking an historical piece. A No4 Mk1* would be perfect. If you were in the U.S., I would trade you one instantly that is already scoped, and throw in the money for what you paid for this one, plus some. I'm sure others would do the same.

8) Rifles of this era, as others here have wisely observed, were not intended to be fitted with scopes. It's true that a few years later (into the Edwardian era) I have seen a few scoped examples of Lee sporting rifles, but these mounts appear to have been added later (the scopes themselves being of 1920s vintage), and they were not always well done. Some of the high-end gunmakers could add the scope, but to duplicate that today in a period-correct way would be expensive, and as noted above, "easy to get wrong." An ex-military SMLE or a later No.4 could be done much more easily, and would be reversible if it didn't work out.

It is yours, of course, to do with as you wish, but this is my recommendation. Please consider leaving this one in its original state and enjoying it as such, or selling it to another collector and acquiring a rifle more suitable for a scope. You got a great deal on this, but there will be another one out there that is better suited to your goals.

Whatever you decide, it would be very valuable to my project if you could share some data on the rifle, especially the markings. I have a full survey I can send you, but just some representative photos would probably suffice, or just a list of markings. This allows me to compare it to other rifles of similar configuration and vintage. I am especially interested in where the "serial number" mentioned in the catalog is found on the rifle, and if there is a number on the action below the bolt handle, and anything on the barrel.

Best regards,
jc5

[Roger Payne]

Wise words eloquently put.......

[mrclark303]

Mike, £700 is a really good price for that. Lee Speeds were made in different "grades" of quality of finish and I think yours may be the top grade.
A word of advice - one I've given before on a few occasions, so please forgive me if it's not new: don't 'scope a rifle unless you [or someone else] can get tight groups with it. A scope doesn't make the rifle more accurate, it just makes the target look bigger.
If your rifle is intrinsically accurate [i.e. groups well] and you do decide to have a scope fitted, I would recommend Phil Rose who has scoped 2 rifles for me and is honest, reliable and skilled. PM me if you need Phil's details.
As far as the correct ammo, I find in my long Lees the best results are to replicate the Mk II .303 round: a 215 grain jacketed bullet e.g. made by BES bullets [not cheap] email mseller208@aol.com and 30 grains of Vihtavuori N140. A cast bullet of similar weight may do just as well, much cheaper; you could get some from Peter Watson MME Custom Rifle Bullets index Email: mment340@gmail.com
Rob

Second Phil Rose, superb guy!

[Surpmil]

You will pay as much for the work as you paid for the rifle. Best sell it and buy one with scope already fitted, they come up quite often.

The rarity, condition and provenance of that rifle qualify it as a collector piece rather than a "user". An ad on Gunmart(?) would probably turn up a number of already scoped rifles whose owners would be happy to trade for yours.

[harry mac]

Hi Chaps I did do a bit of research on the bloke who worked at Great Western Rail. I paid £700 for it which isn't a lot so any "plunge" in value is effectively minimal. It is finding some period mounts for it and getting the gunsmithing done that is vexing me. Thank you for the input by the way, regards, Mike Bailey

Sometimes, the "value" in not in the price.
Unless it's a real basket case, drilling and tapping this rifle would be vandalism. Absolutely, the only exception to this would be fitting a set of actual vintage bases and a vintage scope.