Help me identify my enfield

[Noobtubes]

Well after first shooting here's the report:

The good: It shoots like a laser: both winchester and federal factory loads ran great, no failures to feed, fire or eject and it hit a literal bullseye on the first shot (and was solid for the rest as well). The recoil on it feels like a .22 compared to my 1903 which I was going back and forth from

The bad: The cases came out deformed (federal did worse than winchester) they appear belted with a notable bulge near the belt-line and the primers are palpably pushed out. The Wolf military classic berdan ammo didn't even go off (despite the firing pin hitting the primers). It went 0 for 4 so I'm not necessarily blaming the gun for that but I will be talking to wold about it as the primers are obviously deeper than either federal or winchester.

I also had my friend video my first salvo and on one round you can see some gas escaping from forward of the bolt.

I'm gonna gauge the headspace when I can get my hands on a .303 gauge (let me know if anyone here has an extra) but its not looking good for this old girl.

The ugly:
I was having such an awesome day shooting iron sights (probably one of my best days ever accuracy-wise, but thats not saying much because I'm not exactly a Seargent York) that when my friend asked me to try shooting his scoped remington 700 I positioned myself totally incorrectly and got a nice 1 inch gash in my forehead from the scope, but there was no line at urgent care so c'est la vie.


The bottom line: I love this rifle and want to have a complete, matching enfield so bad but I'm thinking I might've gotten burned this time. I got it as part of a trade that included a nice 1907 enfield bayonet, a repro canvas bag and sling, an original enfield cleaning kit still in was paper and 100 rounds of wolf classic ammo so the rifle was only about $450 of the value. It looks like my options are at this point:

A: offload it as a display piece.

B: pay to get it re-barreled.

C: Cry long and hard.

D: Both A and C.

E: Both B and C.


I'd love to hear what you guys think

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[smle addict]

You forgot option F): none of the above.

Those deformed fired cases are normal for wartime Lee Enfields. I have a couple of No 4(T) Snipers that are harder on the cases than that. If you reload, then case life is limited to 3-6 reloadings before they split. If you don't reload, then you've nothing to worry about.

There is a lot of talk on the internet about headspace and lee-enfields. I own several, and have only headspaced two that had bolts replaced.

In looking at the pictures you posted of the cases, I can see where the primers have backed out on a few of the cases. That tells me those rounds were light loads (not loaded to maximum velocity), and as such, the case does not fully grip the chamber walls. This would cause a bit of gas to escape out around the case near the bolthead and the primers top back out. If I had to guess, some of the cases necks and case bodies are sooty, correct?

My advice is to do a search of this forum for "Enfield headspace" (in the search field). The experts on here have gone over the headspace issue to the point of having beaten the dead horse into small carbon atoms.

Looking at your cases and hearing your descriptions tell me its a normal enfield. nothing you have conveyed here would necessitate a barrel change. Save your money on the headspace gauges too. The US sporting gauges do not equate to the British military spec gauges.

I would caution against using Wolf Ammo. Those steel cases do not expand and grip the chamber wall like brass does. Try and stick to brass commercial manufactured (PPU, Rem, Win etc), or surplus ammunition. If you can find any surplus HXP (greek) or MAN (german), grab it and enjoy. That stuff is great.

Don't worry, enjoy your rifle (you got it at a good price), and remember proper eye-relief on scoped 700's!!!

EDIT: here is a post that touches briefly on case bulging and headspace.

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=63331

[Noobtubes]

Hey, Thanks for the info! That would be awesome because rebarreling would make it not all original. I got the WOLF as part of the trade but I would never buy it. My current theory (until reading your post) is that the bolt head is worn causing the case not to seat? the striking pin marks are slightly to one side and that is the bulged side. I read that thread but is it normal to have that kind of asymmetric bulging? I also had one primer burn-through on the winchester 180's. I 100% plan on reloading but was gonna do this for a while to accumulate brass. I would love it if it was a non-issue as the gun shoots like a top right now.

[smle addict]

Its a non-issue. The pierced primers are a sign of pressure in the other direction from the backed-out primers. I have seen asymmetrical in many of my rifles. I just full-length size and reload-on. Granted, case life for me (generally) is around 3-5 loads with Remington and Winchester brass. With HXP and PPU, I have some cases going on 7 loadings. HXP and PPU is much better brass than the current US commercial stuff. I have a couple of hundred loads consisting of Hornady brass, and am now up to 6 re-loadings with those. Pricey, but good stuff too.

As always, use the most current load data, and never exceed the maximums listed in the manuals. Almost all of my loads are in the 80-85% of maximum. I keep the velocities to around 2200 to 2300 FPS. Remember, these are old rifles, and there is no need to max the loads.

Heck, I have a 220 Swift that bulges cases in an asymmetric way, and that thing still shoots 1/2 inch groups all day long. Cases life is short for that one, as I max all of those loads for varmint hunting.

[RobD]

I am not an expert, but have shot .303s all my life and regularly shoot 6 examples [ME, LEC, MLE x2, SMLE, No4]. In the past I have certainly had one .303, a MLE, which stretched cases a lot, and led to case separations after a small no. of reloadings; I tried everything but was never happy and then sold it on and became happy. And I've been very lucky ever since then with several other rifles; they vary a lot - and it was not down to headspace but the dimensions of the chamber, I understand. The chamber on your rifle does seem wider than most, from the appearance of your case. Although there is often a bright ring on a fired .303 case about 8mm up from the rim [which is, by the way, the same place where most case separations occur] , the bulge shown in your pic does seem unusually obvious. Even if you just resized the necks, I wonder if you'll start to see case separations. Those aren't catastrophic, by the way, but it is not a reassuring thing to happen on the range and it does require having a .303 broken case extractor with you [ see .303 Clearing Plug, Or Split Case Extractor. ]. My personal preference in your situation would be as follows: I'd sell the rifle back to the dealer I got it from, accepting 25% or so loss, and I'd look for another .303 from a reputable dealer but I'd ask if I can do a range test first, to satisfy myself the rifle is accurate and the cases look OK after firing. I think peace of mind has a lot of value. But as I say that is my personal view; I am quite certain others will disagree, perhaps emphatically.
Rob

[Alan de Enfield]

I wonder if you'll start to see case separations. Those aren't catastrophic, by the way, but it is not a reassuring thing to happen on the range and it does require having a .303 broken case extractor with you

That is what the Butt-Hole and oil bottle is for - to make sure you always have a spare :
Extractor
Extractor Spring
Extractor screw
Case extractor


Add a small watchmakers screwdriver and you are 'good to go'.

[RobD]

"That is what the Butt-Hole and oil bottle is for"

Is that a quote from Carry on up the Khyber?

[us019255]

0% plan on reloading but was gonna do this for a while to accumulate brass

I am not an Enfield expert, but I do reload for 3 of them. 1) The bulge is rather typical of the loose chambers that were to decrease the incidence of jams from mud in trenches. The solution for reloaders is to save brass from each rifle separately then neck size. You now have rounds that are customized for each chamber. Brass life will be excellent. 2) It is best practice to get some common "O" rings that just slip onto the cartridge and rest on the rim. The first time you use the brass it will be held in close contact with the bolt. Yes, bolt will be hard to close the bolt. Remove the"O" ring, neck size and you will now, in that rife, head space on the shoulder. Again long brass life. If I remember the archives somewhere on this site have this info.