Unertl Sniper

[cplstevennorton]

It seems there is still some disagreement on this matter within GCA. It was not my misunderstanding as to what I was told by the Marine who was one of the ones setting up the Unertl Snipers .

I'm not discrediting what he told you, I'm only trying to explain that there is nothing in the official Marine Corps docs that backs up the statements that he made. I mean they make it very clear that before, during, and after the Unertl rifles were made, all were built on National Match rifles.

But I still think you can explain why he might be right, but just not about the Unertl.

The more I dive into the A5 research, the more I'm finding they were being built at almost the exact same time as the Unertl snipers. In fact, I'm tracking a shipment built just a couple months before they started on the Unertl rifles, and there might have been some built in 1944 after the main builds of the Unertl were most likely done.

Most of the A5's I believe were built from leftover parts that were in the 1938 counts at the Philly Depot. Otherwise when a Mann Niender sniper wore out in between the wars, they were not rebuilt, but just broken down for parts and put in storage. So they already had receivers drilled for the Mann blocks and it was most likely these were taken out of storage and built into complete rifles. They even had barreled receiver Mann's in storage. They were just literally a barreled receiver drilled for the Mann Blocks and that was it, no other parts.

There was at least 120 Mann's made during WWII, and probably more likely at least 150. Then there might have been some builds in 1944 as well. So there was a considerable amount of Mann Niender A5 snipers made in WWII and the number is approaching how many Unertl's were most likely made as well. So you have two sniper rifles, built at basically the same time, but are quite different from each other, and a lot of them.

Even in 1943/44 the Marine Corps states that both rifles are confusing everyone, and they can't track what rifles are which. There was just mass confusion on these two snipers Marine Corps wide. Then you figure in this gentlemen was making these comments to you at least 20 years later and there has been some time passed since he stated the comments to you as well.

I think this Mann Niedner confusion is something that has never been explored in the books. Everyone in the books always detail the Mann Niedner A5 as a WWI rifle. But really they weren't used a lot in WWI. Most weren't built until the war was basically over and a lot more Mann's were made in between the wars and WWII, then there ever was in WWI.

As of right now we know of 3 WWII Built Mann Niender rifles. Probably because no one knows to look for them. All three are identical and are complete rebuilds, and show no existing National Match traits other than serial number. All three basically look like the standard Marine rebuild, and look nothing like a Unertl Sniper.

I have interviewed a lot of vets, and I see confusion in many of their statements. When you are in, you are just a kid and these weapons are just tools, and memories get fuzzy over the years. I think to even when I was in the Marines 20 years ago, and the details are pretty fuzzy on a lot of the stuff.

Then as much as I hate to say it, there is also at least one Marine who claimed to know first hand details of how the Unertl Snipers were built. Well when I researched him, he was on Guadalcanal at the time, so there is no way he could have had first hand knowledge.

I'm not saying he is wrong, the way they proof fired them in what you said, is actually really close to what I see in the docs. I just don't see any evidence that any Unertl Snipers were built on anything but the National Match rifles.

This is sort of compelling too. But when you put a real Unertl Sniper rifle next to a real WWII Mann Niender, you can see how easy it would be to confuse these two rifles. We are collector's so we see the differences, but a 20ish something young Marine who at this time probably had never seen a rifle scope, it would be easy to mix these two up.