Questions about rifle action and general strength of k98

[Fruler]

I'm looking to buy a German, Mauser k98k... 7,92... The gun I'm looking at is 1945 dated. Stock is dry, looks like it could've been refinished and left without any oil to protect the wood, or perhaps my assumption could be far off. The seller has described it to me a "last ditch" rifle... The gun doesn't even have a hole near the front cap to insert a cleaning rod, which I found odd. I'm not sure how I feel about owning a last ditch gun, but it's in the price range for me and maybe you guys could talk some sense into me... So I've come here hoping to get some questions answered from the finest milsurp forum there is. Question 1. Was action strength ever compromised in anyway for these late war rifles? Question 2. Is the metallurgy or properties of the steel in the late war rifles just as good as 1940 dated K98ks? Was there any compromise in metal strength, I should say. That's basically all I want to know. I'm sure even when Nazi Germany was scrambling to get every gun they could and trying to get them out the factories STAT, they still probably had high standards, right? At least I would assume so. Or did standard relax a bit??? Thanks a lot mates.

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[Calif-Steve]

You are right in wondering about 1945 production. Most of the very late 98's are/have collector interest. I would not be looking for a 1945 shooter. Personally, I would be looking at a pre-war 98, for shooting and collecting. Guys, jump in on this question.

[Fruler]

You are right in wondering about 1945 production. Most of the very late 98's are/have collector interest. I would not be looking for a 1945 shooter. Personally, I would be looking at a pre-war 98, for shooting and collecting. Guys, jump in on this question.

Why would you not consider looking at a 1945 for a shooter? Is it more collectable? I figured the way this things looks it would be less desirable. I looked at it on the 30th and the action seems just as strong as any other mauser... Of course so do low serial numbered 1903s. I just want to be sure the gun is structurally intact and that the heat treating was done right... But impossible to know just by sight i suppose. Yes im actually thinking about finding a 1939-1942 model. Guns cranked out as fast as they can be, makes me nervous. Perhaps my nervousness is unfounded. Its always a gamble with and milsurp to an extent if you want a shooter.

[Paul S.]

My guess is that Calif-Steve bases his opinion upon the belief/myth/hype that any late war German weapons were subject to sabotage or poor workmanship at the hands of slave labourers, or that late war production was 'rushed' or not of the highest quality materials. That said, I personally have never, ever seen a Kar98 of any vintage have a structural failure. Would I shoot a 1945 Kar98? Yes, after checking it - just as I would any vintage firearm.

[pocketshaver]

remember, a lot of the late war made by jewish prisoner rifles for the german military were used by isreal.... no issues for them.

At the same time, there is a really nice book somewhere abouts that tells ANY company that does heat treating of metal including guns how to take the heat treatment out and then RE HEAT TREAT it to make it completely back to model 98 standards

[Eaglelord17]

Late war K98ks are perfectly safe to shoot provided no one has done anything to it afterwards and it is in good condition.

The Germans cut corners on the stuff which didn't matter like overall fit and finish and simplifying the design as much as possible. They did not make unsafe rifles. Much like Japanese late war, or Russian wartime production its crude but still effective.

[MGMike]

...

The Germans cut corners on the stuff which didn't matter like overall fit and finish and simplifying the design as much as possible. They did not make unsafe rifles. ...

The potential problems are from things you can't see, cannot simply assume, and will not discover until there is a failure: poor raw material, and ersatz or improper or substandard heat treatment.

It is an inescapable fact that by 1945 the Germans were desperate, and resorting to materials and methods that would not have been acceptable given more time and resources. Quality was subordinated to maintaining high production. What is surprising is that quality generally remained as high as it did. Yet, inevitably, under such circumstances there must have been many lapses.

So --when you have a choice--do you want to trust your face to generalizations? If you're going to build a sporter, it's more sensible, with less risk, to start out with something unquestionably better.

M

[amadeus76]

The potential problems are from things you can't see, cannot simply assume, and will not discover until there is a failure: poor raw material, and ersatz or improper or substandard heat treatment.

It is an inescapable fact that by 1945 the Germans were desperate, and resorting to materials and methods that would not have been acceptable given more time and resources. Quality was subordinated to maintaining high production. What is surprising is that quality generally remained as high as it did. Yet, inevitably, under such circumstances there must have been many lapses.

So --when you have a choice--do you want to trust your face to generalizations? If you're going to build a sporter, it's more sensible, with less risk, to start out with something unquestionably better.

M

When the war is going badly and you're desperate you definitely want to cut corners and issue your troops unsafe rifles... Cuz that makes sense.

I have a 1945 mix-master K98 shooter. It's a lot of things; accurate, reliable, fun. But the one thing it isn't is unsafe and poor quality.

[Aragorn243]

Not a matter of issuing troops unsafe rifles. It is a matter of cutting corners, speeding things up and utilizing less resources or other resources because the correct ones are no longer available. Quality in these instances do indeed suffer. Germany did have what is considered a last ditch rifle that most consider a collector piece not suitable for firing. These are extremely rare and the rifle in question here probably is not one.

[amadeus76]

They cut corners on the stock, cleaning rod, and finish, not on the strength of the action... Doing so would be the most counter productive thing they could have done.

You always hear about this crap, but I’ve yet to see any documented proof that any of the last ditch rifles from either Germany or Japan were unsafe fire or that the actions were significantly less strong than pre-war examples.