OBLITERATED OR ABSENT SERIAL NUMBERS OR RE-NUMBERED

[dirty doc]

WHAT TO DO. I AM LOOKING AT 2 BRING BACK 1911s, ONE BEING AN A1. PARDON THE BOLD, CAPPED LARGE LETTERS. EYESIGHT THING. ONE FRIEND, A LT.COL. WHO WAS IN O.S.S. IN WWII BROUGHT BACK HIS SERVICE 1911-A1. IT HAS NO SER.# OR U.S.PROPERTY MARKINGS; ONLY THE "REMINGTON RAND". THEN, A LOCAL WIDOW RETRIEVED HER CORPMAN HUSBAND'S KNUCKLE KNIFE AND 45 FROM UNDER THE WOODPILE (INSIDE PORCH)after he died AND WANTS TO SELL THEM. I PROMISED I WOULD HANDLE IT. HER 1911 IS S.A. OVER COLT FRAME WITH ONE EACH MFG GRIP. ALL ELSE IS MISHAMSH OF WWI PARTS. IT WAS ISSUED TO HIM WITH AN OBLITERATED SERIAL NUMBER AND A HAND STAMPED "X11** REPLACEMENT NUMBER. ALL PARTS ARE WWI. HE SERVED BOTH IN WWI AND WWII. MY ATF AGENT FRIEND USES PHRASES LIKE "BURN IN HELL FOR YOUR SINS...." WHERE ARE WE IN THIS. MY BROTHER INHERITED A "SPOOK" 1911-A1 DECADES AGO WITH NO MARKINGS BUT THE MFG. I ALSO HAVE A RE-CAPTURE 1911-A1 WHICH THE N.V.A. HAD OBLITERATED ALL U.S. MARKINGS, #'S AND PROOFS ON THE RECEIVER. IT IS RE-NUMBERED OVER THE OLD # AND HAS A DEEP # UNDER THE GRIPS. WHAT THE HAY ARE THESE LEGALLY. THANK YOU!!! DIRTY DOC

Information

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[Gil Boyd]

Well Dirty Doc,
Lot there to pick from.............not really sure what you want to hear.
But I suppose I'll leave it to someone your side of the pond, as serial numbers washed out in any country, are as popular with agencies like the ATF, as a porcupine in a Durex factory.
Simply put, you have two .45's and a knuckleduster knife, I am sure someone will pick the bones out of what you potentially have and respond. Good luck.

[rcathey]

You can get a new serial from the ATF. There’s a form for it. I’ve seen a Krag with a stamped in number that started with ATF.
There’s always the chance that they’ll decide it’s easier to destroy it though.
For me personally, it wouldn’t be worth it. I may purchase a firearm in a case like this if I had the opportunity, but I’d just part it out and destroy the receiver....which is probably also illegal so don’t listen to me haha.

[browningautorifle]

I would think that would work fine, sell the parts kits and lose the frame to local LEO if you know one. Your only other choice is to give it a number but the stamps are so small...it would be suspect. The parts can be worth a fortune alone if you have certain parts by manufacture. The knuckle knife can be valuable. Good luck with this one, others will be along...

[painter777]

I came across this information using our Search:

Serial Number

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=12732

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=14708

The Middle link above has a reply by fellow member WTMR, it is reply #10. I know he has had at least 2 (or 3 by now) M1 carbines that he had ATF assign numbers to.
Below is his reply from that link:

new serial number
in those same regulations there is a section that pertains to if you "have" a gun with serial or name obliterated or removed. It details that you can apply for a new serial at your local ATF office. They will not put it on for you but they have to inspect it before to determine if has been used in a crime, then they if satisfied it has not been will help you get new number issued. Then they give it back to you and call you with a new number that is then registered in your name. Then you have to bring it back to them to see that number has been applied. There is no charge for this. Then the gun can be sold in interstate commerce. I have had it done to two carbines now. One that has never been applied is ok to but if gun looks ground on its a technical issue and is subject to interpretation by someone not of your choosing.

I have a feeling with all our older Vets passing that ATF is seeing more of this now than in the previous years.
Be sure to speak with a Seasoned Member of the BATF to avoid or limit any confusion.
War souvenirs needing serial numbers........

Good Luck,

[browningautorifle]

Great info Charlie...

[mmppres]

Check with a local ATF agent most of them are able to help you . I have never had any problems asking for there help.

[rcathey]

I have never had any problems asking for there help.

The "Industry Operations Investigator" that performed the interview portion for my FFL told me that the ATF just wants to help people follow the law. Her exact phrasing was, "we're a kindler, gentler ATF these days."

[Sergio Natali]

I would leave where it is.