+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 33

Thread: Problem with No4 MkI Bolt

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #11
    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last On
    Today @ 06:59 PM
    Location
    Victoria BC
    Posts
    30,402
    Real Name
    Jim
    Local Date
    10-31-2024
    Local Time
    04:55 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by dewey1424 View Post
    it looks like I have a Longbranch bolt head.
    That's right...
    Regards, Jim

  2. # ADS
    Friends and Sponsors
    Join Date
    October 2006
    Location
    Milsurps.Com
    Posts
    All Threads
    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  3. #12
    FREE MEMBER
    NO Posting or PM's Allowed
    RobD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Last On
    10-10-2024 @ 04:38 PM
    Location
    UK / South Africa
    Posts
    942
    Local Date
    11-01-2024
    Local Time
    12:55 AM
    dewey, from your initial post, it sounds like your bolt head jumps out of the track on firing - not on cycling the bolt - is that correct?

  4. Avoid Ads - Become a Contributing Member - Click HERE
  5. #13
    Legacy Member dewey1424's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Last On
    05-04-2022 @ 10:00 PM
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    9
    Local Date
    10-31-2024
    Local Time
    06:55 PM
    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by RobD View Post
    dewey, from your initial post, it sounds like your bolt head jumps out of the track on firing - not on cycling the bolt - is that correct?
    Yes sir. That is correct - it pops out when fired. It cycles OK when dry fired or using a snap cap.

  6. #14
    Contributing Member Micheal Doyne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Last On
    10-25-2024 @ 12:19 PM
    Location
    Wiltshire Uk
    Posts
    397
    Real Name
    Ed Vigors
    Local Date
    11-01-2024
    Local Time
    12:55 AM
    That don’t sound terribly safe!

  7. #15
    Legacy Member Bruce_in_Oz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Last On
    10-27-2024 @ 12:07 AM
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    2,258
    Local Date
    11-01-2024
    Local Time
    09:55 AM
    There is something DEFINITELY awry if the bolt-head "jumps" up on firing. There should be a section of the guide-rail still engaging the bolt-head. Furthermore, the extractor should be in the appropriate narrow recess in the rear of the barrel and held against the radiused ramp surface by the extractor spring. Another factor is that there will be a difference in "bolt float' between feeding ammo from a full mag and dry cycling.

    If the bolt is flopping all over the place during dry cycling, either it is badly worn, the Body is seriously worn, or, embracing the power of "and", BOTH important bits are totally flogged out.

    Quickest test is to "borrow" a brand-new bolt body; one that is JUST a bolt body, i.e., nothing fitted. Run it into your rifle and compare the vertical play, just before lockup. If there is significantly less, a NEW bolt body may get you out of trouble for a few thousand more rounds. If the "slop"is just as bad with the "new" bolt body, your rifle body is in pretty dire shape.

  8. The Following 2 Members Say Thank You to Bruce_in_Oz For This Useful Post:


  9. #16
    FREE MEMBER
    NO Posting or PM's Allowed
    RobD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Last On
    10-10-2024 @ 04:38 PM
    Location
    UK / South Africa
    Posts
    942
    Local Date
    11-01-2024
    Local Time
    12:55 AM
    I think a professional gunsmith needs to help you with this. Brian Dickicon [see post no. 3 above] is the top man in the USAicon for Lee Enfields. I wouldn't shoot it until it has been fixed.
    Last edited by RobD; 03-07-2020 at 03:52 AM.

  10. #17
    Advisory Panel Brian Dick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Last On
    09-25-2024 @ 03:05 PM
    Location
    Edgefield, SC USA
    Posts
    4,090
    Local Date
    10-31-2024
    Local Time
    07:55 PM
    I think he means that it pops out when he retracts the bolt after primary and secondary extraction. Looking at the pictures, I can't for the life of me see how it can pop out upon firing. I've never seen or heard of that happening with any Lee Enfield Rifleicon. How about a clarification?

  11. #18
    Legacy Member dewey1424's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Last On
    05-04-2022 @ 10:00 PM
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    9
    Local Date
    10-31-2024
    Local Time
    06:55 PM
    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Dickicon View Post
    I think he means that it pops out when he retracts the bolt after primary and secondary extraction. Looking at the pictures, I can't for the life of me see how it can pop out upon firing. I've never seen or heard of that happening with any Lee Enfield Rifleicon. How about a clarification?
    I have taken this rifle to the range twice since I bought it last fall. The second time, earlier this month, the sequence was this. I loaded a single round and closed the bolt. When I fired the rifle, the bolt stayed in place but I could not withdraw the bolt. In each case, I had tried to raise the bolt handle to eject the case when I encountered a stuck bolt. But I could manually raise the bolt head to the vertical position with my thumb and then remove the bolt. It appeared to me that the bolt head had jumped the track. This happened 3 times at which point I reached the same conclusion as Mr. Doyne. [Slow learner.]

    I have since tried loading a snap cap again from the magazine and from lying on top of the magazine. It loads, the bolt stays in track, and it is extracted OK, with the bolt head staying in the track. Whatever the problem is, it appears to be associated with firing, but I didn't think to take any pictures of the problem when it occurred.

    I have put 19 rounds through the rifle. I believe I would have noticed this behavior the first time I took it to the range. In between the first and second visits I stripped the bolt head and rechecked the headspace with the 0.071 gauge.

    Here are some more images.




    As you can tell, I'm new to these rifles. The only thing I could think of is that front part of the channel is worn or bent up, the bolt head is too wobbly or worn, and/or I didn't get the bolt reassembled correctly... or I did not correctly assess the sequence of events.

    Is it possible when loading a single round to close the bolt and fire without the extractor engaging the rim or to commit some other "operator error" that could cause this behavior?

    Is it possible that a worn or damaged throat that wouldn't show up in a headspace check could cause this problem?

    Thanks to all who are weighing in on this problem. I would prefer not to relegate this one to wall hanger status, but if it can't be made safe then needs must.

  12. #19
    Advisory Panel Surpmil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Last On
    @
    Location
    West side
    Posts
    4,846
    Local Date
    10-31-2024
    Local Time
    04:55 PM
    Your bolt head overturn should not be more than 12° if I remember Peter's comments correctly.

    Furthermore, your bolt head does not have the necessary chamfer at ether end of the guide rib, as per the bolt head shown above. A little surprising considering it is a Long Branch made bolt head.

    Get out the needle files and go to it?

    The bolt head retaining slot on your rifle does not look worn enough to condemn it, nor cause problems if the bolt head rib is properly chamfered.
    “There are invisible rulers who control the destinies of millions. It is not generally realized to what extent the words and actions of our most influential public men are dictated by shrewd persons operating behind the scenes.”

    Edward Bernays, 1928

    Much changes, much remains the same.

  13. #20
    Legacy Member Bruce_in_Oz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Last On
    10-27-2024 @ 12:07 AM
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    2,258
    Local Date
    11-01-2024
    Local Time
    09:55 AM
    That photo showing the rear of the chamber looks odd. You should be able to see a clearly-defined "collar" in the body, just behind the actual barrel face. The barrel should not be touching this "collar" (known as the "inner ring" because No4s breech up on the front of the Body, as opposed to all its predecessors, which, like a Mauser, breeched up against that inner ring.

    Another part of the "mechanical safety" designed into the Lee Enfield family is that the the very front of the blot-head enters this close-matching aperture in the rear of the breech ring, thus centralizing (more or less) the bolt-head with the chamber.

    IF that aperture is oversized, the bolt-head alignment will not be as good. If the bolt-head alignment is "wonky", so will be the bearing of the locking lugs. If the bolt assembly can be "drifted" to the right, the left lug will disengage. Thus, on firing, the initial back-thrust will be primarily on the RHS locking shoulder. Asymmetric back-thrust in an asymmetric (or any other) body will produce undesirable wave / vibrations that no amount of fancy bedding will overcome.

    If, somehow, the rear of the breech ring does NOT closely surround, the very front of the bolt-head, there WILL be problems The bolt cannot move off-axis to the left because of the substantial support from the left side of the Body. As the bolt closes, the extractor engages its slot (or at least, it SHOULD) and this tries to pull the bolt-head to the right. HOWEVER, at the same time, that inner breech ring is "capturing" the bolt-head and centralizing it.

    In the unlikely event of a catastrophic overload, or a seriously faulty cartridge case, the relatively soft body will not shatter like a grenade, but the slightly less substantial right side of the body will "stretch". NOTE; what is envisaged here is not something caused by a few extra grains of powder, but like an overloaded proof cartridge or worse. Even then, what is more likely to happen is that the extreme pressure (and temperature), will blow out via the primer pocket. Again, the engineers thought of this. That is why the extractor has a bit of "air-gap" around it and there is a vent port directly opposite on the left side of the breech ring. These features prevent a "scary" event escalating into something MUCH worse. Lee Enfield vent "case blow-outs" from the front of the receiver. Herr Mauser's designs conveniently allowed the generous bolt-lug guides to allow escaping hot gases to vent rearwards, hopefully dissipating as they went. That is why Mauser type rifles have that rather large shroud over the rear of the striker assembly. It's a SHIELD against stuff that can blot out your eyesight.

    SMLEs and earlier are slightly SOFTER in the body than No4s. When they "blow up", they tend to bend more readily; the earlier pattern ones the the magazine cut-off slot slightly moreso. They also wear in the bolt-head retention area; to the point that the bolt-head can disengage from the body when only halfway closed. This of course takes a a LOT of action manipulations, dry and live.

  14. The Following 2 Members Say Thank You to Bruce_in_Oz For This Useful Post:


+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. T38 bolt problem
    By lauth12 in forum Japanese Rifles
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06-29-2015, 05:08 AM
  2. .303 Bolt problem
    By Whitey_Vic in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 03-23-2015, 06:51 AM
  3. no4 T bolt problem
    By mrbungle in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 08-23-2013, 11:12 AM
  4. No.4 bolt problem
    By ShaveTail in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 03-24-2011, 10:29 PM
  5. Bolt problem
    By fester54 in forum Gunsmithing for Old Milsurps
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-03-2009, 01:11 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts