M1 Garand Clip Hard to Seat

[browningautorifle]

Question--even though the back of the clips indicate they are of US manufacturer, have there been any foreign (maybe Chinese) made clips with US stampings, ie counterfeit, made to look like US made?

Guess you missed my statement here...

Careful when selecting clips that are supposedly USGI, as new...they could easily be brand new Chinese copies. I know for a fact they make DA clips for instance.

The inside of these clips isn't parkerized with a thick coating of parkerizing by chance? I read back but didn't find any mention...

[Der Jagar]

Guess you missed my statement here...



The inside of these clips isn't parkerized with a thick coating of parkerizing by chance? I read back but didn't find any mention...

No, I didn't miss your statement, in writing my last post I forgot about it-my apologies. The site I bought them from indicated they were of US manufacturer, AEC 3-same manufacturer that previously made MILSPEC clips for US Military. Being the clips don't say 'Made In China' I assume they are as reported by AmmoGarand. I think I'll contact them today and ask. Maybe I got duped! 'browningautorifle'---Educate me. What is 'DA' that you advise in your post "I know for a fact they make DA clips for instance"?

I did post that the clips I was using in my '42 Garand were the same that I had used previously in my '55 Garand with the PPU ammo and had ran around 8 clips using the Remington 150g FMJ ammo with no problem in seating clips or any other problems with feeding, ejection of brass or clips. These same clips, some of which were both BRW6 and some of the AEC3's I purchased from Ammogarand worked fine in the '55 Garand. These same clips using the PPU and Remington ammo and having used some fine emery cloth on the sides of the clips (polished up) seated hard in the '42 Garand. That's what has me 'duped'! Evidently something isn't clicking right within the bowls of that '42 Garand only thing I can figure out, maybe "different strokes for different Garand's" as far as enbloc clips go!!!

[browningautorifle]

What is 'DA' that you advise in your post "I know for a fact they make DA clips for instance"?

DAQ would be clips made by Dominion Arsenal Quebec for the US and are marked with a small DA in the back. I know for a fact because I've bought "New in the box" clips that turned out to be Chinese copies. I think it was the parkerizing finish that made me investigate, was lighter color. Also they didn't take the ammo as well or fit right. There are others... Here's another discussion here. https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=24290

I'm trying to find some proof of my accusation that the Chinese have copied clips but can't lay eyes on it now.

having used some fine emery cloth on the sides of the clips

I got that one but had to ask about the inside. There shouldn't be a difference but apparently is.

You probably already have this...


Blank stamp Springfield Armory
AMP Stamp All Metal Products Co. (hard to read)
ACE 2 Stamp Aggressive Engineering Corporation (Military production)
AEC 2 Stamp Aggressive Engineering Corporation (Commercial production)
AEC 3 - Aggressive Engineering Corp (Commercial)
Anaheim, CA
AGE 1 - Aggressive Engineering Corp (Millitary contract)
Anaheim, CA
AGE 2 - Aggressive Engineering Corp (Millitary contract)
Anaheim, CA
AMP 1 - All Metal Products Wyandotte, MI
BLM - Barry L Miller Eng Inc Irvine, CA
BRW 1 Stamp Borg-Warner Spring Division
BRW 2 Stamp Borg-Warner Spring Division
BRW 3 Stamp Borg-Warner Spring Division
BRW 4 Stamp Borg-Warner Spring Division
BRW 5 Stamp Borg-Warner Spring Division
BRW 6 Stamp Borg-Warner Spring Division
BRW 7 Stamp Borg-Warner Spring Division
B-W 4 - Borg Warner (WW2) Spring Division,Bellwood, IL
C - Lerio Patent Cup Co. Mobile, AL
DAQ Stamp Dominion Arsenal (Quebec)
fF - Fedders Mfg Buffalo, NY
HA - Haerens Ammunitions Arsenal Copenhagen, Denmark
IMI Stamp Israeli Military Industries (Israel)
I S 1 Stamp International Silver Company
I S 2 Stamp International Silver Company
I S 3 Stamp International Silver Company
IS 4 - International Silver Meriden, CT
IS 5 - International Silver Meriden, CT
JMO Julios Maurer, Oberstein Germany
58 - Nationalist China
59 Nationalist China
68 JMO Stamp Julius Maurer (Germany)
69 JMO Stamp Julius Maurer (Germany)
70 JMO Stamp Julius Maurer (Germany)
71 JMO Stamp Julius Maurer (Germany)
72 JMO Stamp Julius Maurer (Germany)
74 JMO - Julius Maurer Oberstein, Germany
LP 1956 Stamp Italian (name unknown)
L&H 81 Italian or Danish
LP 1961 Stamp Italian (name unknown)
NW Stamp Northwest Metal Products
MAS Manufacture D' Armes St. Etienne France
MBZ Stamp (fat letters) Mourek & Ball, Zeist (Netherlands)
MBZ Stamp (small letters) Mourek & Ball, Zeist (Netherlands)
MBZ Stamp (regular letters) Mourek & Ball, Zeist (Netherlands)
MFT Mataal Fabriek Tilburg Netherlands
NW - Northwest Metal Seattle, WA
SF Serini France
S - Stanley Works (or SW) New Britain, CT
S A Stamp Springfield Armory
S A Stamp with dash underneath Springfield Armory
S A Stamp (oversized letters) Springfield Armory
TF&S Thomas French & Co. Ltd
W4 - R Wallace & Sons Wallingford, CT
W5 Stamp R. Wallace and Sons
W6 - R Wallace & Sons Wallingford, CT
WEP Stamp Wade Electric Products
WEP1 - Wade Electric Products Sturgis, MI
WRA - Winchester Repeating Arms New Haven, CT
WR Wallace & Sons Mfg.
5 Stamp Unknown - might be an S for Stanley Works but uncertain at this point
5mm hole. - Austrian

[Der Jagar]

Thank you 'browningautorifle' for the chart on clip stampings. Haven't ever seen a listing that extensive. OK--it's time to come clean-First I called and talked with 'Rob' owner of AmmoGarand where I bought the clips a few years back that are marked AEC3. Very friendly and helpful guy. Rob advised that these clips are made in California by Aggressive Engineers the former US Military contractor that made clips for US Military use. He advised that he neither buys or sells Chinese "junk" in his business. In a email I sent to him asking about the origin of his clips I also explained the 'woes' I was having with my '42 Garand. He advised it sounds from his experience and what others have asked him about the same problem, it sounds like the eight rounds of '06 aren't being loaded properly. He advised that when he explained to them the proper loading method, the trouble went away.

This is where I come 'clean'---Rob at AmmoGarand asked how I was loading the clips and even though I was doing so in proper sequence, they weren't laying in there right and putting excessive pressure on the sides of the clip making the clip hard to seat. He also advised the same pressure made the first round hard to strip by the bolt. So with 'egg on my face' I admit to improper loading. In loading how I did it was starting with the first round in its proper place then alternating sides, but when getting to the 7th and 8th rounds, I was sliding the 7th in and then forcing the 8th horizontally into the clip putting pressure on it until it snapped in. I did check that all were seated. Rob at AG advised basically that was ok for the first 6 rds, but to try taking the 7th at a 45* angle and start it into place and do the same with the eighth, he also gave me other tips on loading the clips to ensure all is well. When doing sort of a twisting motion with all eight rounds in the clip, I could hear some slight snapping of the rounds to get seated. Something I wasn't doing. This may differ in what some of you do, but I was advised it works for him. I tried this method with three different clips in both Garands and each time the clips seated into place and the difficulty of the bolt stripping the first round was gone. A couple of times I had to wack the op rod handle slightly to get things going, but this was on new clips right out of the box. I hadn't shot my '55 Garand for a spell, so maybe there was something I was doing before when I wasn't having problems and when I loaded up clips for the '42 M1 I wasn't doing it. Anyway, the '42 M1 was seating the same clips full of ammo without difficulty that previously I was short on using a shop hammer to get them seated. Operator Error--my apologies! Thank you for all the help.

[browningautorifle]

I admit to improper loading

Doesn't matter, we all had to start. When I started, there was no one to show me and no internet.

I could hear some slight snapping of the rounds to get seated.

I load my last one in from the side and it snaps into place. Top round on the right.

A couple of times I had to wack the op rod handle slightly to get things going

That is NOT unusual. A slight assist of forward impetus...not unusual or a fault.

[Steve762]

Yep, What he said. Have a friend who reloads 30-06 make you up 8 or more dummies with USGI or US commercial brass and practice loading. Enjoy, Steve

[Der Jagar]

Thanks Steve762-I know just the guy--Me, Myself, and I!! I've been reloading since 1976 and now load for a variety of rifles and handguns, cast a lot of my bullets also. I've been reloading the '06 for around 15 yrs or so when I bought a 1917 Enfield. Since then, before buying my first M1, I added a '03 Springfield and 03A3 Springfield and have reloaded a pile of ammo for them. Several years ago I bought a RCBS X Die in 30/06 and really like it for the Garand.

I've done some practicing loading the enbloc's since I t/w the guy at AmmoGarand and things are going a lot smoother now with the '42 Garand. Haven't shot any yet, but have been loading the rifle, chambering the first round, then unloading it. I'm doing all of this in my back yard with the barrel pointing to my backstop and there is nothing but several hundred acre's of farmland and timber beyond that. I don't public range shoot, don't care for all the fuss and putting up with it all. Besides my back yard, I shoot at a family owned pasture with nothing but acre's of farmland and timber around it and at a abandoned quarry. Spoiled am I.

[ArtPahl]

Your posts are very articulate. I have not had your problem with my 3 Garands. I've used Lake City and Greek (HXP) ammo and my reloads using that brass plus my supply of WWII era brass. The only problem I've had was with the H&R doubleing. I think that was mostly my fault since I've also had that trouble with some of my single trigger double-barreled shotguns. I fixed the H&R by replacing the trigger.

I wonder if you've thought of swapping some parts with your Springfield to try to see which part is the culprit. Also, I guess I'd try die marking (magic marker,etc.) loaded clips and inserting them in both rifles to see if unusual rub marks appear.

[ArtPahl]

Sorry; it appears my post was late--you've already fixed your problem.