WW1 'Periscope Prism company' sniper scope???

[Roger Payne]

Hello Damien. Crikey! Where do you start! I suppose part of the fascination for me about the WW1 stuff is the fact that there are more gaps in our knowledge than there is knowledge! We know some, & speculate a lot.

I know the modified PPCo type rings adapted to fit the Aldis that you speak of. I was chasing an example of this scope & rings combination for years, until last year a friend here on the forum found one for me in North America. Luckily I managed to secure it, BDL shipped it for me, & a nice example it is too. There is documentation (I have it somewhere, though finding it quickly may be easier said than done), which indicates that a quantity of Aldis scopes were made/modified by the manufacturer to incorporate the prism assembly. IIRC I think the total was 700, though it could be more. Of course, they could have been for use on the early 'Trials' P'14 snipers, or they could have been destined for the PPCo rifles with modded rings, or ultimately for both. Some were also used late on on the claw mount over bore SMLE rifle (essentially the P'14 T mounts modified to fit the SMLE, but with the rear base position on the receiver side wall, not on the charger bridge as per the later Lithgow rifles). However, the scopes used on the P'14 & I suspect also the SMLE over bore claw mount, were (I think!) all graduated 1 to 10 on the range drums. The example I have with the modified PPCo offset rings is graduated 1 to 6 in the usual style for mid WW1. The later over bore rifles were set up in 1918/19. Do I think existing PPCo offset SMLE's had their scopes replaced with Aldis scopes as & when the original PPCo scopes became unserviceable? I don't know is the answer, but I am maybe a little more inclined to lean towards the Aldis scopes being specifically set up as part of an appreciable contract, rather than piece meal. Indeed, there are those that suspect that these Aldis scopes in PPCo mounts could even represent one of the 'lost' mount designs from WW1 (Bartle, Atkin, Aldis Brothers own design).

It is even an assumption that the 'Transitional' Fuess/PPCo scopes are that. I suspected that because one sees scopes that show mixed features, chiefly the presence or otherwise of the deflection adjustment capstans. I have always assumed that their addition was part of that transition from Fuess to PPCo, part of the 'anglicising' of the scope, if you like. But even this is an assumption. It could be that Fuess were offering scopes with or without lateral adjustment facility at the time that war broke out - we just don't know, although if someone had an old catalogue showing definitively Fuess origin scopes bearing the capstans that would be pretty strong evidence that we (British government) probably did rather less to the Helios 3 than previously thought - perhaps just anglicising the screw threads?

Concerning the use of scopes with or without intrinsic deflection adjustment with mount systems with or without same, I see where you're coming from. As a rule of thumb I have gone with the belief that if the scope has lateral adjustment it will fit a mounting system that lacks it, & vice versa. It just doesn't make sense to do anything else. Mind you, do governments always act sensibly?? I had assumed that the Aldis scope/PPCo type ring arrangement was probably contemporaneous to the PPCo scope/PPCo ring set ups.......if not during 1915 at least during 1916. Of the few scopes I have seen that had or had had modified PPCo rings on them, AFAICR all were 1916 dated......& all graduated 1 to 6. Although I have only one Aldis bearing the modded PPCo rings I have several scopes, & have seen a fair few more over the years, that did bear these rings (as evidenced by the residual marks on the scope tubes), to suggest that there was probably a fair total fitted up on to SMLE's. If my bumbling is correct it would suggest that the lateral adjustment prism in the 3rd Pattern Aldis came in during 1916, & was retained on the later SMLE & P'14 over bore claw mount type rifles, although their range drums were graduated up to 1000 yds, which makes distinguishing them possible. Lots of speculation there....! The Aldis' inmodded PPCo mounts could have been retro fitted late in WW1, but if so, why range drums 'only' graduated to 600?

SMLE/PPCo mount bases? I don't know if there was more than one maker of those. I have always assumed only one (PPCo). The differences are only very minor & could easily have been incorporated into production with little interruption. The main difference is the size of the thumb catch; some are deeper than others (some project below & above the thumb catch spring & some project only above). As far as I can see there are no crucial major dimensional differences between any of the relatively few original that I have seen over the years, but it is feasible there could have been more than one maker. IIRC in the patent details the 'small thumb catch squared off front lower end' variety is shown, so one might surmise that this type is the earlier version.

I've actually seen three variations of PPCo scopes (marked up as such, not counting any Fuess transitional variations). Apart from the two 'short cone' & 'long cone' ocular housing variants, there is also a fairly scarce type where the range drum saddle extends entirely round the 360 degree circumference of the scope tube. I have only ever seen three or four, & have one example, though it has been 'got at' somewhat, unfortunately. They do seem to be quite scarce & I wonder if they might be early?? Of the two commoner types I am not aware of any definitive info to determine if one of these patterns came before the other, or if indeed they could have been set up together contemporaneously. However, the patent details definitely show a 'short cone' pattern in the drawings, & the 'short cone' is also the type that more closely resembles the Fuess Helios 3, suggesting that that may be the earlier variant.

Phew! I've only scratched the surface of what you've asked, but I already need to go & lie down in a darkened room for a while!