Lee Enfield Unknown Date

[KentuckyShane]

All,

Looking for some help on what I have. I know it’s a Lee Enfield but after hours of research still am not sure of things like original date or where it was manufactured, etc. I know that the nose cap, bolt, receiver and sight serial numbers all match. 54045 Z on all of them. I also see several other markings such as No1 MkIII and FR ‘42. I also believe this is from India due to the crown over GRI and ISA with an arrow stamped into the wood butt. I do not see any original date anywhere. The date is nowhere to be found. It’s completely smooth metal and doesn’t look like it was ever ground out where it would normally be but paced. Really curious on when it was originally produced and if it really is from India as it doesn’t have the screw a lot of folks mention. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[NORTHOF60]

Pictures would be a great asset in answering your questions.

[Roger Payne]

Agree, photo's of the rifle would be helpful, but on the basis of the Z in the serial number, if Stratton is correct, it would relate either to a BSA or RSAF Enfield produced SMLE dating from WW1 or just before. A Z prefix is associated with the following production years: RSAF - 1912, 1915, 1916, 1917, & 1918; BSA - 1915 & 1916.

Hope this helps a little.

[Giove]

If I understand correctly the rifle is an Ishapore (Crown/GRI and the Z as a suffix).

[Alan de Enfield]

All,

Looking for some help on what I have. I know it’s a Lee Enfield but after hours of research still am not sure of things like original date or where it was manufactured, etc. I know that the nose cap, bolt, receiver and sight serial numbers all match. 54045 Z on all of them. I also see several other markings such as No1 MkIII and FR ‘42. I also believe this is from India due to the crown over GRI and ISA with an arrow stamped into the wood butt. I do not see any original date anywhere. The date is nowhere to be found. It’s completely smooth metal and doesn’t look like it was ever ground out where it would normally be but paced. Really curious on when it was originally produced and if it really is from India as it doesn’t have the screw a lot of folks mention. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Does it have a 'single' hole gas vent or an enlarged oval hole, or a 'figure 8' shaped gas vent ?

[Roger Payne]

Giove, it may just have been FR'ed in India. RFI is not listed as ever using Z as a prefix/suffix. There is great variability in the positioning of the letters in serial numbers; most serials are letter prefixed, but some suffixed.......

AFAIK the letter associated with a number is there just to distinguish the different blocks of numbers; 'A block', 'B block' etc., & the positioning before or after doesn't have any deeper significance, although the majority of letters are before the digits.

[Giove]

Yes Roger, it's true, but the combination of "clues" makes me think of an Ishapore.

Furthermore, the letter as a suffix is typical of Indian SMLEs.

I can be wrong of course.

[Alan de Enfield]

If I understand correctly the rifle is an Ishapore (Crown/GRI and the Z as a suffix).

If it helps - My Ishapore (original build and Ishapore Fr'd) has 5 numbers and a suffix "Y"

[Roger Payne]

If the OP could furnish us with some photographs that might clinch it as military proof marks & acceptance stamps would likely narrow down its provenance. We are working on very incomplete information & may be making wrong assumptions. For example, as you say Giove, it could be a RFI original build & has been completely renumbered with a new serial number. Who knows?? Any chance of some pictures??

[Surpmil]

This is like asking Sir Kenneth Clark to evaluate a sidewalk artist.