Here We Go Again - No. 5 Advice

[Singer B]

Well, I found another "No 5" on an auction site and I am thinking about bidding on it. There are some things I am concerned about. There is a screw on the left side of the stock just ahead of the receiver that I am not seeing in pictures of other No. 5 carbines. The receiver "scallop" next to the safety doesn't have the same radius look I have seen in other photos also. I don't have access to the rifle so I can't check for the lightening scallops on the barrel next to the receiver. The import mark identifies it as a No. 5. I noticed the end of the lower fore stock has a black end cap and I have seen pictures where they don't have one. Any advice or recommendations are greatly appreciated.

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[Alan de Enfield]

The import mark identifies it as a No. 5.

You will note that the import mark say "MK5" NOT No5 so that is incorrect.
The action scallops look Kosher.
Some No5s were fitted with an end cap, some weren't and some that were had them removed when the wood rotted due to collecting moisture under the end-cap
The screw in front of the magazine looks like an Indian addition (called the Ishapore Screw) so it may have served in India.
The Bayonet looks like an Indian Copy of the No5 bayonet.
Another indication of Indian use is the original manufacturers marking seem to have been ground off (the CAI markings are where the original manufacturers markings should be)

There is not enough detail in the pictures to see any markings, but, the above commebts are based on what I can see.

[Singer B]

You will note that the import mark say "MK5" NOT No5 so that is incorrect.
The action scallops look Kosher.
Some No5s were fitted with an end cap, some weren't and some that were had them removed when the wood rotted due to collecting moisture under the end-cap
The screw in front of the magazine looks like an Indian addition (called the Ishapore Screw) so it may have served in India.
The Bayonet looks like an Indian Copy of the No5 bayonet.
Another indication of Indian use is the original manufacturers marking seem to have been ground off (the CAI markings are where the original manufacturers markings should be)

There is not enough detail in the pictures to see any markings, but, the above commebts are based on what I can see.

And that is why you bring it here! Based upon that, it sounds like an Indian copy where they ground off the No 4 stampings?

[Alan de Enfield]

And that is why you bring it here! Based upon that, it sounds like an Indian copy where they ground off the No 4 stampings?

I disagree.
From the limited pictures it shows the correct weight reducing modifications to the action and I suggest it is a correct No5 Action, but the barrel ............ ? (cannot tell)
India had quite a lot of No5's which got the 'cleansing' treatment and Indian add-ons.

Nothing wrong with it, it just has Indian history / service in addition to UK History. *

The shape of the body below the Rear sight is NOT the No4 shape, but it IS the No5 shape.

* based on the limited photographs.

[GeeRam]

Yes, I agree, looks like a real No.5 that has been 'stripped' of its original markings while in Indian service, likely during it's first Indian FTR, which isn't uncommon for non-Indian manufactured rifles.

[GeeRam]

I've just had a quick look through Gunbroker for No.5's and there are at least 5 or 6 No.5 currently on there in much better condition than this one - as well as 3 or 4 in similar condition, so it would depend on how much this one is going for, and how good the barrel is, and what the headspace is (or at least what number bolt head it has for starters)

I'd be passing on this one tbh.

[mrclark303]

I would concur, Indian service No5 with typical 'Ishy' screw

A fair number of ex Indian examples were released into the world market a few years ago.

I wouldn't discount this rifle out of hand, unless you want an unmolested example ( more money and few about).

I would request a pic with the top wood removed to see if the lightning cuts are present, the Indians frequently replaced worn barrels with easily obtained No4 examples) and ask specifically about barrel condition.

Matching numbers ect

[Singer B]

Thanks guys. Since it is an online auction, I can't get access to the rifle to remove the handguard or check the bore. It is not numbers matching (bolt) but I love the history lesson I just received so even if I dont buy it, I'm ahead of the game. I'll see if I can get it at a decent price with it weaknesses but now I know it is an actual No 5, and one with a pretty interesting and traceable history.

[Alan de Enfield]

Thanks guys. Since it is an online auction, I can't get access to the rifle to remove the handguard or check the bore. It is not numbers matching (bolt) but I love the history lesson I just received so even if I dont buy it, I'm ahead of the game. I'll see if I can get it at a decent price with it weaknesses but now I know it is an actual No 5, and one with a pretty interesting and traceable history.

If the bolt is not 'numbers matching' then it has been 'messed with' in civilian hands an you have no idea if the headspace is correct, as you don't have access to it to assess the headspace, or if the locking lugs are evenly matched It's a 'walkaway' unless at a giveaway price.
You can buy a 'good' No5 just as easily a buying one with unknown problems.

Head space can be fixed by changing bolt heads, but it is not just a case of changing the bolt head in this instance as the bolt was never properly fitted to the rifle in the first place.
Bolts are not 'plug & play' they need actually FITTING (ie work doing to grind the locking lugs so that the forces are evenly balanced on both sides). Not impossible to do it DIY but some skills and knowledge required.

[GeeRam]

I'll see if I can get it at a decent price with it weaknesses but now I know it is an actual No 5, and one with a pretty interesting and traceable history.

It depends what you consider a decent price?
I would also say, its anything but a pretty interesting and traceable history......considering its an Indian rework, and the condition that most of the ex-Indian ones I've come across have been in.
As already said above, its a 'run away now' example considering, as I said, there is currently a half a dozen much better and un-messed with examples currently for sale on Gunbroker within the USA.