nominal moa

[phil evans]

i'm now aware that a benched m1 should shoot 3 ~4moa.
i have shot .235moa wih a benchrest .308.
i want this to be a fun gun.
i'm too old to hold steady at standing.
i've got dies so i'll load up some recipes.

i've taken it apart and the operating rod really looks bent, i believe there should be a little bend but maybe not as much as i'm seeing, it looks shiney on one spot on one side.

[AKA Hugh Uno]

so long ago, don't recall

In fact, when I used to shoot the "military matches" at my club in NY (no match ammo, no mods to military rifle, no ARs), there was a guy who had an out of the box Danish WRA that shot even better than this "beater" rifle. Easily a 2" group with a full clip.

[AKA Hugh Uno]

IT SHOULD have SEVERAL bends in it.

There is a test for this called the "tilt" test which you can perform. Take apart into the stock and complete action. Remove operating rod SPRING only. TILT complete action minus spring straight upward. BOLT and OPROD should "glide" back without any interference (more or less).

Bending an op-rod is not something I would recommend except in the most minor tweaking (and even this is iffy). Good luck.

[goo]

pet peeve follows:

sitting and shooting off a bag and then measuring group size with a micrometer just isn't masculine. on the other hand,shooting 200 yard offhand is.
...
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2234/...g?v=1213126968

... a 4 or 5 moa garand should group about like this at 200 yards. which is just fine with the old goo.
.....
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2020/...g?v=1193675166
...
leastwise, that's what i thinks

[John Kepler]

i've taken it apart and the operating rod really looks bent,

IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE BENT! DO NOT mess with it! Do the "tilt-test" as Mr. Winn has provided it to you, but DO NOT mess with the bend-profile of that op-rod unless you have a burning desire to spend a lot of money to buy a new one (which will be just as bent as what you have now!)

FWIW, the highest paid men/women at Springfield Armory bent those op-rods into that very precise shape!

[Maury Krupp]

i'm now aware that a benched m1 should shoot 3 i've taken it apart and the operating rod really looks bent, i believe there should be a little bend but maybe not as much as i'm seeing, it looks shiney on one spot on one side.

As others noted it's *supposed* to be bent. But bent in a very specific way.

The shiney spot *may* indicate that it's mis-bent. The "tilt test" only checks for binding so it's possible for a mis-bent rod to pass and still be out of spec.

One way to be sure is to contact Jim Swartz and have him check it with an original ordnance gauge.

Maury

[Akulahawk]

FWIW, your 5-shot group is a shade under 4 MOA...and statistically nearly meaningless (too small a data-field!)!

Like I noted in the post, this was literally in the first few shots with that rifle. On top of that, it's well within the first hundred shots ever (probably less than 60) out of a rifle that isn't a .22LR. The fact that I was able to keep it under 4 MOA with iron sights, unfamiliar sighting system (peep sights), M2 ammo, and being a new gun to me is absolutely incredible to me. That was literally my first shooting session with it. I'm also quite aware that a 5 shot group is not sufficient data to get a good handle on how well the rifle actually shoots.

I do remember that shooting session though. A good portion of that spread was me. The sights were not quite held in exactly a 6 o'clock position. It moved around a bit.

I've since gotten to know the rifle a bit better. The next time I get out to the range, I'll see if I can get to shoot some better groups. I might need a spotting scope to help zero the rifle more easily next time...

When I do, I will take a picture and post it here for you guys.

[John Kepler]

And like my Grandma used to say...."One swallow don't make it summer!". Statistically, too small a data field for a mathematically significant answer remains too small a data field regardless of how "new" you are to shooting it. You might have a 3 MOA rifle....you might have a 5 MOA rifle, but your posted target doesn't prove either! That was all I was saying.

Folks, this isn't a "mines bigger than yours" game. It's about a valid, hard-headed evaluation of what a given firearm/load combination is going to do each and every time you pull the trigger. Based on the science of statistical analysis, with the inherent number of variables in the system, the minimum data-field for a meaningful evaluation is around 50 shots, with 100 being better. This is one reason why if you ever watch a competition shooter, they are always writing in log-books plotting shots like an "Olde Tyme" accountant....a comp shooter may forget his lunch, but he'll never forget a pencil!

Oh...your somewhat limited experience with a highpower rifle is evident in your target....a horizontal string in an otherwise "tight" rifle is almost always a Novice Shooter moving around on the stock too much. Once you develop a rigidly repeatable "spot-weld" on the rifle, that particular defect should disappear (not to worry....you'll invent new defects...ask me how I know!)

"If you can't express it in numbers, it's an opinion, not a fact!" Dr. T.J. O'Keefe, PE

[Akulahawk]

And like my Grandma used to say...."One swallow don't make it summer!". Statistically, too small a data field for a mathematically significant answer remains too small a data field regardless of how "new" you are to shooting it. You might have a 3 MOA rifle....you might have a 5 MOA rifle, but your posted target doesn't prove either! That was all I was saying.

Folks, this isn't a "mines bigger than yours" game. It's about a valid, hard-headed evaluation of what a given firearm/load combination is going to do each and every time you pull the trigger. Based on the science of statistical analysis, with the inherent number of variables in the system, the minimum data-field for a meaningful evaluation is around 50 shots, with 100 being better. This is one reason why if you ever watch a competition shooter, they are always writing in log-books plotting shots like an "Olde Tyme" accountant....a comp shooter may forget his lunch, but he'll never forget a pencil!

Oh...your somewhat limited experience with a highpower rifle is evident in your target....a horizontal string in an otherwise "tight" rifle is almost always a Novice Shooter moving around on the stock too much. Once you develop a rigidly repeatable "spot-weld" on the rifle, that particular defect should disappear (not to worry....you'll invent new defects...ask me how I know!)

"If you can't express it in numbers, it's an opinion, not a fact!" Dr. T.J. O'Keefe, PE

New to shooting, I am not... New to High Power shooting... I DEFINITELY am!!! I do know what you mean by "spot-weld" though. This is a relatively new skill for me. I still have much practice to do before I'm almost perfect...

[John Kepler]

New to shooting, I am not... New to High Power shooting... I DEFINITELY am!!! I do know what you mean by "spot-weld" though. This is a relatively new skill for me. I still have much practice to do before I'm almost perfect...

And that's where the fun is!

However, having said that, with nothing pejorative intended....simply stating a fact, little of what you have learned to date will do much for you in Highpower, and a better mind-set going into this is "I know nothing!", because basically, that's a pretty accurate statement-of-fact at this stage of the game (other than some basic trigger-control and possibly some position skills out of smallbore, nothing from pistol or smallbore helps you much in HP...ask me how I know!).

It's always tough in the beginning because, frankly, some of the "skill-set" you need to develop is counter-intuitive...meaning that to do the "full-Monty", it really requires a teacher/coach ("self-taught" marksmanship is in the same category as "self-taught" brain surgery!) Also, there's practice....and then there's "practice"...it has to be right to be beneficial....endless repetition of "2+2=5" isn't going to help your arithmetic skills, and it's certainly not going to teach you differential calculus! I suspect you're still shooting off a bag....eventually you'll have to/want to move up to a shooting sling and into position shooting which is where the REAL fun is at!

Imagine the fun you can have shooting that very same rifle for score at 1000 yds! It's "do-able"!