Receiver and trigger housing stock clearance differences?

[Matt_X]

I have new to me Underwood in a Winchester stock (with Inland recoil plate).
There is no clearance between the back of the reciever - trigger housing assembly and the woodwork. In fact there is an impression in the back of the mortice from the contact -perhaps driven home by firing. (see photos)



Attachment 120651
Are there minor differences between stocks made for different prime contractors?
In particular between stocks intended for companies using brazed trigger housings and those only using machined trigger housings?

Might changing stocks to one made by a company supplying Underwood or IBM have a little moer clearance in the back?
Or am I barking up the wrong tree here?

Information

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[browningautorifle]

Is there an issue with accuracy or function?

[floydthecat]

I have experienced slight TH fitment issues when using commercial housings in GI stocks and vice-versa. Don’t remember any concerns using USGI TH’s in USGI stocks.

[eb in oregon]

Is the recoil lug snug, or does it wiggle? It should be snug. When assembled does the receiver fit up tight to the lug? It may have been fired some with the lug a little loose, which would allow it to creep back a bit. You can check that with a feeler gage when assembled.But if it ain't broke don't fix it.

[Matt_X]

Is there an issue with accuracy or function?

I don't know yet. The previous owner was supposed to include the adjustable rear sight that he bought it with. I'm still waiting for it...next week I'll go to plan B.
There's no hang to the barrel during assembly, so presumably the barrel will move around a bit during firing. In their book about the Carbine, Ruth and Duff state contact at any place besides the recoil plate will harm accuracy (p.128). How much this may do so, I can't say but am hoping others here might.
My other concern is whether the repeated battering of the stock may eventually cause a crack. I don't see a particular weakness there, and it may be that spreading the impact force has no downside.

While waiting for the sight, I've traded the type 1 extractor and firing pin, since the gun will (hopefully) be my main shooter.

---------- Post added at 02:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:48 PM ----------

Is the recoil lug snug, or does it wiggle? It should be snug. When assembled does the receiver fit up tight to the lug? It may have been fired some with the lug a little loose, which would allow it to creep back a bit. You can check that with a feeler gage when assembled.But if it ain't broke don't fix it.

When the recoil plate is removed from the stock and fitted to the receiver, they are snug. Not interference snug, but just snug - zero play.
When assembled in the stock there is no room between the receiver and the plate or the reciver and trigger housing and the stock.

[jond41403]

Do you have a spare recoil plate handy to try in that stock to see if the fitment is any different? You definitely need a little bit of barrel hang when the action is hung onto the recoil plate. I'm no expert, I'm just thinking what I would do in that situation, and since recoil plates are relatively cheap, I would try that just to see if it made any difference in that stock.

[jimb16]

For what its worth, there were some minor changes in the stock milling for the recoil plate during the production of the carbines. Changes were made when different style recoil plates were developed. And then very late in production another change was made to better support the type 3 recoil plate. That change was the elimination of removal of wood directly below the recoil plate to help support it and keep the barrel from sagging into the barrel channel. Not sure when each of these changes were made or which stock makers implemented them, but I do know that changes were made.

[painter777]

Hi Matt,
I wonder if you have a 'Late' Type III WRA stock that has what JimB is getting around to- Having the extra support cut under the Recoil plate along with the wood below being milled at a slightly different angle- also for extra support. In your picture (attached below) it appears below the bottom of the recoil plate to be 2 circled impressions, the top being partial and likely the back of the hole on the TH that the hammer strut and spring go in. The bottom hole for the Trigger housings trigger spring.
Also in the picture to the left of the recoil plate you can see the drain hole impression from the end of the integral op slide rod and spring.
Any way they made these stocks just before they switched over to the long barrel channel Type III stocks.... (I prefer to call these Type IV stocks). I believe Overton/Inland did the same. Both types will have thicker outside rails.

**To be honest I'm having a hard time trying to make out from your picture if your stock is the Extra support or the earlier style** I believe Jim M has a pic you can look at to see for yourself.

But No matter which stock you have..
Best advice has been given from above, I'd tread lightly, it's easy enough to try another Recoil plate.

A while back someone had a recoil plate that wasn't fitting between the receiver legs just right, symptoms similar to what your describing. You could see the indentation type wear on his receiver... like yours is showing.

If interested in trying another Recoil plate I have a bag of AU Underwoods here. Send me a PM here and I'll mail you one. I'd need a pretty good picture of the rear/top of your receiver and I'll look for a close match.... best I can.

I'd try another recoil plate. If you don't get the accuracy or barrel hang your looking for after that, you can try taking a little wood off where those circular impressions are, which shows your action is pinched in to that stock. But first we'll circle the wagons and give it more thought.

Let me know about the Plate,
If this has made no sense I'll try again tomorrow. I'm worn out

Note the Circular impressions from the TH sitting so far back.

[Matt_X]

"I wonder if you have a 'Late' Type III WRA stock that has what JimB is getting around to- Having the extra support cut under the Recoil plate along with the wood below being milled at a slightly different angle- also for extra support. "

H'm. Compared with the illustration in Ruth's WarBaby! the gap under the installed recoil plate is large, which led me to beleive this is a more 'mid' production stock. However if the the difference is more subtle, then I don't know.

(If its any help on dating manufacture: what is remaining of the acceptance stamp is just the GHD -which I would describe as small letters)

In your picture (attached below) it appears below the bottom of the recoil plate to be 2 circled impressions, the top being partial and likely the back of the hole on the TH that the hammer strut and spring go in. The bottom hole for the Trigger housings trigger spring.
Also in the picture to the left of the recoil plate you can see the drain hole impression from the end of the integral op slide rod and spring.

Yes. Exactly. And if you look at theback of the receiver and trigger housing assembly, the contact surfaces are discolored.

Both types will have thicker outside rails.
Added photos which may help.
I believe Jim M has a pic you can look at to see for yourself. Having an example to compare with would be great.
Attachment 120657Attachment 120658

But No matter which stock you have..
Best advice has been given from above, I'd tread lightly, it's easy enough to try another Recoil plate.

I'll take you up on this.
Thanks!

This is exactly why I asked. I didn't want to start buying and trying different stocks if thats mot neccesarily the answer. I was just guessing that the stocks might have had more variation and less interchangibility than other parts. I noticed brazed trigger housing shape fitts snuggly, and has a countersink for the retaining pin that the previous owner missed.

Attachment 120656

[jond41403]

Wow, that is super compressed in there. On the bottom hole indention, you can even see the lines on the bottom of it from the trigger spring pressing against the wood.