No. 4 Mk. I TRIALS by R.S.A.F. Enfield 1933 - Caution advised on one for sale

[Seaforth72]

Caveat emptor (Buyer beware) A dealer in the UK is selling a 1933 dated No. 4 Mk. I Trials rifle made by R.S.A.F. Enfield, serial number A0169. Only about 2,500 No. 4 Mk. I Trials rifles were made in the early 1930s and about 1,400 of these are believed to have been converted to sniper equipment in late 1941 and 1942. The sniper examples, though rare, are more common today than those that were not converted. I have one 1931 No. 4 Mk. I (T) now and I have owned two others in the past. This No. 4 Mk. I Trials rifle for sale is one that was not converted to sniper equipment, and thus it is quite rare, one of about 1,100. The dealer has a price on it of USD $6,400 or GBP 4,800 (approximately CAD $8,190, AUD $8,985, NZD $9,381; Euro 5,655). (as of 2021-11-28) A buyer also has to also factor in taxes, shipping and perhaps export/import costs.

The problem is that although is a rare rifle, but it is not '"totally original" as claimed by the seller. A potential buyer should be aware of that, and should ask for more photos and information to determine what is original and what has been replaced. Then they can decide if it is worth the asking price to them.

In a quick comparison with my own 1931 R.S.A.F. Enfield No.4 Mk.I (T) I note that:

1. The butt stock has been changed and does not have the brass butt disc. The fore-end has low wood to clear the magazine cut-off, but we do not know who the maker is or whether it has been modified from a standard later period high-wood fore-end. That low-wood pattern continued into 1941-1942 production even though the magazine cut-offs were not fitted on the wartime mass-production rifles.

2. The backsight has been changed and it is now a Canadian one made by Small Arms Limited at Long Branch in 1941-1942.

3. The magazine cut-off appears to be one from an SMLE / No. 1 rifle. Unlike mine, it has different markings, lacks the grasping ridges on the bulge and the hump in the middle is larger. The grasping portion should be rolled metal, but appears to be the milled SMLE/No. 1 pattern.

4. The stacking swivel is missing.

There are not enough photos of details to check everything e.g. Is the magazine the correct maker and model? Who made the fore-end and is it numbered to the rifle? Who was/were the maker(s) for the hand guards. Is the upper band hinged and made by Enfield? Is the wasp-waist (not "wasted" as stated in their ad) front sight guard Enfield marked? Is the Mk. I cocking piece Enfield marked? Is the lower band Enfield marked? Does the bolt serial number match? Are the trigger and trigger guard Enfield marked? Note that the parts should all have the Enfield monogram mark that looks like a "D" with the centre bar of a the E and F overlaid on the D.

This same dealer is also selling a 1975 L42A1 in the chest and that has recently been discussed here on Milsurps. Anyone considering buying this No. 4 Mk. I Trials rifle is advised to also read that thread discussion.

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[mrclark303]

People really have to carry out due diligence checks on such specialised rifles.

To be fair and playing devils advocate here, finding a trials rifle in full original guise, as it left Enfield, must be incredibly rare.

It would have to have gone into a reference collection and never left. Any rifle that's seen use, will have replacement parts...

That said, the RFD in question should give a detailed and accurate analysis of the piece.

[Enfieldlock]

The cut-off should be folded steel plate. I have the drawing of it along with the screw which is not the SMLE one. The thread is BA.

[martin08]

I have one which was converted to sniper, then de-snipered but the scope pads remain intact. What is an approximate value for that, please? Thanks.

Edit to add: Here is a link to the pictures.

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=53917

[superbee]

The trick with trials rifles is to find one not converted into a sniper. A rare find.

[Surpmil]

I have one which was converted to sniper, then de-snipered but the scope pads remain intact. What is an approximate value for that, please? Thanks.

Edit to add: Here is a link to the pictures.

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=53917

Which post number in that thread contains your photos?

[martin08]

Which post number in that thread contains your photos?

Unfortunately, it looks like all the pictures were lost during the recent site crash. I may have some original photos in archives. I will try to dig them up.

[martin08]

I found my pics in archives.

I see no option to edit my original post from 2015, so I will add a few pictures here. Any ideas on recent value would be appreciated. Thank you.