RA 1903 Rifle with type 11 A3 stock?

[Freestateguy]

Hello all,
So I am cleaning up and data sheeting a pretty nice RA 1903 I have had for some time. Serial # 3143504 DOM 6-42. Receiver serial and barrel date are to the same month. All milled with the exception of the butt plate which is stamped and parked. Bolt body is SC {"2" and punched on the root}. I believe the extractor, collar and cutoff are also SC. Serrated Trigger and Sear are S marked which I believe to be SA. Rear sight is "G" marked {Gotham?}. Everything else is R marked. No rebuild cartouches are present. I have been told this rifle would qualify as a "Modified" 1903. I believe the serial number is in the correct range. I know that some of you reject the term "modified" and using "type" to describe these stocks. That being said, after all of that here is my question: My Rifle has a type 11 1903A3 stock with recoil pins and is cut for a hand guard clip. Cartouches include RA, cross cannons and boxed FJA with a single non serifed circle P on the wrist. High Hump hand guard with sight groove. I have been down the rabbit hole on the stock thing and I know that many say that stock should never ever be on a production 1903 and I see others disagree. I am not an expert but I do know that in 1942 things were moving fast and these A3 stocks did exist. Its obvious my rifle received some non RA parts along the way but my main concern is the stock. Do we think that rifle could have received that stock at the USGI armory level and can I call it modified or {transitional?} See the pics. Thanks for your time-

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[1903Collector]

Hello all,
So I am cleaning up and data sheeting a pretty nice RA 1903 I have had for some time. Serial # 3143504 DOM 6-42. Receiver serial and barrel date are to the same month. All milled with the exception of the butt plate which is stamped and parked. Bolt body is SC {"2" and punched on the root}. I believe the extractor, collar and cutoff are also SC. Serrated Trigger and Sear are S marked which I believe to be SA. Rear sight is "G" marked {Gotham?}. Everything else is R marked. No rebuild cartouches are present. I have been told this rifle would qualify as a "Modified" 1903. I believe the serial number is in the correct range. I know that some of you reject the term "modified" and using "type" to describe these stocks. That being said, after all of that here is my question: My Rifle has a type 11 1903A3 stock with recoil pins and is cut for a hand guard clip. Cartouches include RA, cross cannons and boxed FJA with a single non serifed circle P on the wrist. High Hump hand guard with sight groove. I have been down the rabbit hole on the stock thing and I know that many say that stock should never ever be on a production 1903 and I see others disagree. I am not an expert but I do know that in 1942 things were moving fast and these A3 stocks did exist. Its obvious my rifle received some non RA parts along the way but my main concern is the stock. Do we think that rifle could have received that stock at the USGI armory level and can I call it modified or {transitional?} See the pics. Thanks for your time-

Great pics!

The stock is CORRECT for that SN! A3 S-Stocks stocks were introduced early-ish 1942 and there was mixed use until depletion of the older stocks. Early RA S-Stocks temporarily used reinforcement pins instead of reinforcement bolts as part of the cost reduction efforts that ultimately resulted in the A3 series rifles, until they realized they were not strong enough to prevent splitting due to recoil. Some of those stocks were even refurbished by removing the pins and installing bolts. I used to look down my nose on pin reinforced stocks until I realized they were getting a bit scarce AND were a very visible aspect of the '03 history.

The 1942 RA M1903 rifles were in fact ALL designated M1903A1 (modified) Springfield rifles (I always refer to them as M1903A1(m).) Only the 1941 RA '03 Springfields were called M1903A1. They had an RA 1941 barrel, old style rear sight body with the lightening cuts, and even finger grooved '03 S-Stocks.

So, find an RA milled smooth butt plate, double check the correctness of the bolt parts, double check the trigger/sear (I could be wrong, but I dont think they used serrated triggers and most of not all were marked R unless they were NOS from Rock Island that came with the RI manufacturing equipment, NOS inventory and WIP parts and 200000 stock blanks when RA contracted to use them for WWII '03 production), and double check the handguard type for correctness, and you are good to go!

[Freestateguy]

Thanks for the info and advice 1903!
It's very helpful and welcome
I have an early milled smooth buttplate on a later 03 that can use the checkered stamped one in the pics
I'll start there

[m1903rifle]

Where is your reference for calling the early Remington M1903 rifles M1903A1? I was always under the impression that only rifles that had the "C" (full pistol grip) stock were called M1903A1 rifles.

[1903Collector]

Where is your reference for calling the early Remington M1903 rifles M1903A1? I was always under the impression that only rifles that had the "C" (full pistol grip) stock were called M1903A1 rifles.

You are quite right. I stand corrected. I was confusing the 1903A1 rifle with the NM1903 rifles which were Calibre .30 M1906 model 1903 rifles (not M1903 or M1903A1 as I mistakenly stated) stocked with an S-Stock until 1929 when the type 8 C-Stock was used for the NM1903A1 rifles (NM rifles being both Calibre .30 M1906 model 1903 till 1928 and 1903A1 rifles 1928 - 1939). As you pointed out, the first 1903A1 rifles started in 1928 (approved in 1927). HOWEVER, it is my understanding that the first 1903A1 rifles were still using S-Stocks until the inventory was depleted and that the C-Stocks were primarily used on NM rifles for at least the first year and SOME used for 1903 service rifle rebuild and repair.

Though I am a little unclear about this next bit, I understood that assembly of service rifles at SA ended in 1927, and though assembly of M1903 .30-calibre rifles at SA did resumed in 1936 thru 1941 they were not service rifles but sold only thru the DCM. Now, does that means that all 1903A1 rifles were either NM or DCM and none were service rifles!!??!?

I dont know when I got in the habit of calling the 1941 RA rifles M1903A1 and post 1941 RA rifles M1903A1 (modified), but I am gratified to finally be disabused of that error. I am also still unclear when the M1903 came in use. Ive seen "M1903" references made to early Calibre .30 M1906 model 1903 rifles as well as the 1941 RA M1903 and 1942 - 1943 RA M1903 (modified) rifles. So it might be so that I have been adding an M in front of the Calibre .30 M1906 model 1903 rifle designation that was also incorrect, but on this I am no longer certain. Funny how the memory tends to blend things together over time and mental images, so clear, no longer as accurate as they once were!

So, to clarify the record, contrary to my earlier comments the 1941 and 1942 - 1943 RA rifles were called M1903 and M1903 (modified) respectively and despite the C-Stock being approved for the RA M1903 I think they were all mounted with S-Stocks until the '03 Scant stocks were available and even then I do not recall whether they were in service rifle production or just field and armory replacement stocks.

[martin08]

With the gun entirely rebuilt, any stock is possible to be found with the barreled action.

[Freestateguy]

Well, looks like I was a little too eager to hear the news I was looking for
I think Martin08 likely has it nailed

[John Wyatt]

A 1903A3 stock would not be correct for the OP's rifle.

[Chuckindenver]

correct stock for the OPs rifle would be a straight grip stock, no grasping grooves, cross bolts marked RLB out of a box. smooth buttplate, R marked underside, all the other parts should be milled R marked as well

[1903Collector]

correct stock for the OPs rifle would be a straight grip stock, no grasping grooves, cross bolts marked RLB out of a box. smooth buttplate, R marked underside, all the other parts should be milled R marked as well

"OPs rifle"???