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01-28-2023 12:55 PM
# ADS
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Two other books worth a look are (The history of) The American Sailing Navy and
The Search for Speed under sail 1700-1855
Both of these are by Chapelle.
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Advisory Panel

Originally Posted by
Bruce_in_Oz
The great rival of "Cutty Sark" was "Thermopylae". a ship so elegantly engineered that she was said be "able to "ghost" along at a steady five knots in a breeze that would not blow out a candle on deck"
The opposite of that was the "Marco Polo", described as being "square as a brick, fore and aft", but a ship that could be driven through gales that would dis-mast or destroy lesser vessels.
The biggest problem with these "high-performance" Clippers was a need for a steady supply of extremely skilled seamen. Steam, whilst hugely inefficient at first, eventually killed off the Clippers, once coaling ports were established on the trade routes. Many once-noble sailing ships ended their days as coal shuttles. The Triple-expansion steam engine was a marvel ot 19th Century engineering..
Kiwi readers may be familiar with the TS "Earnslaw,which plies Lake Wakatipu at Queenstown. She has a perfectly functional triple expansion engine, chugging away since 1912..
Thermopylae was based in Victoria, BC at the end of her commercial life; hauling rice from the Orient with a reduced rig. A great pity the Portuguese sank her in 1907(?), but perhaps she was too lightly built to endure as well as some others?
“There are invisible rulers who control the destinies of millions. It is not generally realized to what extent the words and actions of our most influential public men are dictated by shrewd persons operating behind the scenes.”
Edward Bernays, 1928
Much changes, much remains the same. 
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Contributing Member

Originally Posted by
limpetmine
(The history of) The American Sailing Navy
I might also then suggest "Six Frigates", the story of the origins of the US navy.
Other than the fabulous account of how our Navy was built, including the political context and forces of the time...I found Thomas Jefferson a peculiar fellow in the buildup to 1812. Not to get too political and violate any of our rules, but I found it hard to swallow that the man who authored the Declaration of Independence would/could resort to the confiscation of all liberty of commerce abroad has his first reaction to the crisis. The contradiction being what it was lead me on a reading streak of original sources - the man really was a living paradox! As a lesser known example, his vision of the simplistic agrarian utopia for America sharply contradicted with his desire to obtain every scientific and industrial novelty which modern technology could produce. His anti-liberty actions when in a crisis being his first instinct arguably laid the foundation of today's version of the party he founded. Happy to discuss objectively in our other forum here. My only point here being that corruption, power, and everything else that plagues modern politics from any side is not new at all. Read the book. It all existed in plain(er?) sight even then - lest we forget.
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Thank You to ssgross For This Useful Post:
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Advisory Panel
You're getting closer to the nubs there ssgross; have a look at the history of central banking in the USA
if you want to see where the power issues really lie. As Franklin noted, the revolution wasn't caused by stamps and tea, but by the taking away of the 13 colonies power to produce their own paper money and the depression that followed. Of course the Lords and Commons in London were in turn merely following their orders from what is euphemistically called "The City of London" in taking those powers away, and they've been following orders closely ever since. 
Jefferson was certainly a very clever man, but sadly "enlightenment" does nothing to change human nature, though it does seem to foster a persistent delusion to the contrary. Just ask Sally.
Last edited by Surpmil; 02-06-2023 at 03:08 PM.
“There are invisible rulers who control the destinies of millions. It is not generally realized to what extent the words and actions of our most influential public men are dictated by shrewd persons operating behind the scenes.”
Edward Bernays, 1928
Much changes, much remains the same. 
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Thank You to Surpmil For This Useful Post:
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Legacy Member
"The Last Grain Race" is Eric Newby's account of his voyage before the mast on the four-masted barque Moshulu with a cargo of grain from Australia
to Scotland in 1938. It can be compared with Dana's Two Years Before The Mast. These were the last carrying-trade routes on which sailing ships could still hope to make a profit (and only then if overheads were cut to the bone).
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