Late war H&H T furniture

[GeeRam]

GeeRam mine sports the JC bracket which is I think is Rose & Son!
Scope is an AK & S MkIII Ser No. 16684 I think they started the serials for the AK & S at 1500.

What prefix rifle serial number though?

My scope is a CT&S in the 207** number range, on a Rose bracket, but we know the scopes were selected randomly for fitting to the rifles at H&H. Another guy in my rifle club has a real 4T as well, but is an ex-Indian service one, so has has its original BSA serial number linished off and re numbered by the Indians, but his is a later 1945 dated rifle, but his CT&S scope is in the 195** number range, so over a 1000 numbers earlier than mine, but fitted to a rifle made in the following year.

[CINDERS]

F38***

[GeeRam]

F387**

Quite a good few 10's of thousands before my L324** rifle then....interesting.

Interested to know how you deduced yours was made around Sept '44 then as in Peter L's book on the 4T, two of the six rifles used for the Oct '44 production trials of the Mk.III scope were also L32*** only within a 100 numbers either side of my rifle, so hence me deducing mine was likely made around Sept '44.

I would have thought a F prefix would be closer to BSA production in May or June 44...??

[Alan de Enfield]

Quite a good few 10's of thousands before my L324** rifle then....interesting.

Interested to know how you deduced yours was made around Sept '44 then as in Peter L's book on the 4T, two of the six rifles used for the Oct '44 production trials of the Mk.III scope were also L32*** only within a 100 numbers either side of my rifle, so hence me deducing mine was likely made around Sept '44.

I would have thought a F prefix would be closer to BSA production in May or June 44...??

I'm getting confused here - my BSA 4T is 1943 and the serial is AV35xx

Did they go from an AA 2-letter prefix (Did they go from AA to ZZ) and 4 digits to a single letter prefix and 5 digits between mid 43 to mid 44 ?

[GeeRam]

I'm getting confused here - my BSA 4T is 1943 and the serial is AV35xx

Did they go from an AA 2-letter prefix (Did they go from AA to ZZ) and 4 digits to a single letter prefix and 5 digits between mid 43 to mid 44 ?

Yes.
When exactly I don't know, but my guess would be very early '44, or possibly when they went from 43 date to 44 date?

[Roger Payne]

BSA Shirley used a single letter prefix followed by a four digit number during 1941 & 42, then in 1943 went to double letter prefixes but with the first of the two letters always being 'A' (AA, AB, AC, AD etc) until they changed over to five digit numbers at the beginning of 1944. The first run of 1944 had no letter prefix, the second 'A', the third 'B' & so on.

The 'latest' prefix combination I can remember seeing for 1943 is AX, but AY &/or AZ may well exist. I've also seen one rifle bearing a A? serial that was dated 1944, but I've only ever seen the one....(I think it was an AX prefixed rifle).

The changeover at the turn of the years 1944 to 1945 seems to be blurred a little. I've seen 4T's bearing P & R prefixes dated both 1944 & 1945.

I've never seen this written down anywhere, so it's purely anecdotal, from my very patchy memory.

[CINDERS]

I'll have to try and jog my memory as to where I saw the info may have been possibly been in Peters book, maybe Skennertons or Strattons, I think it may have been in Stratton's.

My rifle and scope are listed in Peters book on Page 48 no prefix for the rifle just 38***/16684 for Dowelled Bush and screw trials, but this does not fathom how I got a date still be good to learn exactly when they were paired together as a unit.

[Alan de Enfield]

BSA Shirley used a single letter prefix followed by a four digit number during 1941 & 42, then in 1943 went to double letter prefixes but with the first of the two letters always being 'A' (AA, AB, AC, AD etc) until they changed over to five digit numbers at the beginning of 1944. The first run of 1944 had no letter prefix, the second 'A', the third 'B' & so on.

That makes sense - I couldn't fathom out how they had got thru' the doubling-alphabet (AA-AZ, then BA-BZ, then CA-CZ etc etc) in such a short period of time.

[Lance]

I am currently working on this so here is what I found. BSA seems to have had multiple assembly lines working that were assigned certain s/n blocks.

AV prefix rifles are found with both 1943 and 1944 dates.
AX prefix rifles are found with 1943 dates.
no prefix rifles in the 3XXXX are found with 1943 and 1944 dates.

I have yet to find an AY or AZ prefix.

[GeeRam]

I'll have to try and jog my memory as to where I saw the info may have been possibly been in Peters book, maybe Skennertons or Strattons, I think it may have been in Stratton's.

My rifle and scope are listed in Peters book on Page 48 no prefix for the rifle just 38***/16684 for Dowelled Bush and screw trials, but this does not fathom how I got a date still be good to learn exactly when they were paired together as a unit.

Aaah right, you are looking at the date of the H&H conversion, rather than the when the base rifle was made by BSA.

I'd love to know both for mine, but did the H&H records survive listing that info of when which rifle serial got paired with which scope on which date (or at least when the completed rifles were dispatched from H&H)
I get the impression we weren't as anal about such levels of documentation as the Germans were........"There was a war on 'ole boy" etc