winchester military marked 1897

[Olddust]

for sale on Gunpost in NS. forgive me, but I dont like the look of the flaming bomb-US marks on receiver.
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[Salt Flat]

Yea--I agree - The shape of the U.S. markings are wrong. The letter spacing is wrong and the flaming bomb is too big. I think the originals were a machined marking as they are very consistent in depth , shape, spacing etc. This is just my opinion. Salt Flat

[browningautorifle]

Looks like the "U" and "S" were separate stamped as they're uneven in height. Not on the same line.

[Brian Dick]

You can see the individual US stamps just forward of the ejection port. Mine has these only and it's a legit M1897 trench gun. I could be wrong, but I thought the nice roll marked US with the flaming bomb ordnance proof wasn't used until 1945 on the Model 12 trench gun along with other riot and regular shotguns used for aerial gunnery training. The bogus markings look like an attempt to copy the later roll markings but were obviously done with individual hand stamps. Why enhance it since the correct US is already on it forward of the ejection port. I'd bet money this gun is one of the batches imported to Canada from Vietnam in the early 2000's.

---------- Post added at 06:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:07 PM ----------

Small correction. The M1897 as well as M12 can have the roll marked US w/flaming bomb but they were also produced until 1946 so only very late production guns will have it.

[Olddust]

I have compared the bogus stampings to legit marks of the type. The flamng bomb is wrong, and the US is obviously an add on. Zoomed in, The US marks forward of ejection port do not look even.
the serial places it 1920 production? It is a takedown gun.

[browningautorifle]

The thing is James...there are so few actual US combat shotguns in Canada that are real. Every single one you come into contact with has an owner that will give you a written guarantee that it's genuine. They just aren't. The reals ones are south of the border. The real ones won't be selling on gunnuts or gun post...or town post.

[Olddust]

I understand this. I never intended to purchase. I posted this thing as an indication of how poorly things have sunk in the online trader sites.

[browningautorifle]

things have sunk

Agreed... I've found that over the last couple or three years since the last big bite here, things have become much worse and three times as expensive for these same spurious gems.

[Brian Dick]

I'm betting it's a real one that someone doctored a bit by adding the markings on the left side of the receiver. Why they would do that when it's already marked is beyond me. The crooked "US" on the right side in front of the ejection port is legit. Probably applied at a workshop during repair and/or refinishing. As I said, a good-sized batch of original guns were imported into Canada in the 2000's from Vietnam. How do I know? I imported several back to the USA. The one I kept, sn. 683164, is far from excellent condition and had obviously been refinished at some point. I had another I bought as a one off from Wortner Gun Works in Chatham that was much nicer with original finish and had the roll markings on the left side but they were perfectly straight and the gun was built late in WW2. I don't think many of the earlier 1897 trench guns were even marked until they saw rebuild during or after WW2. Betting the Vietnam returns went to the Pacific in WW2 and never returned, probably winding up in Japan and being used throughout the Korean War and finally winding up in Vietnam where they were left with the RVN upon our withdrawal there. Just my 2 cents worth of opinion but it makes sense.

I have a stripped receiver, sn. 692684 and barrel left over from the same deal and it has no "US" mark on it. It's not refinished. Anyone want a project?