Ruth vs Riesch

[Bill Hollinger]

This is what I have observed having read through both and being a carbine collector:

Ruth's good, lots of good information that is correct and broken down by maker.

Ruth's not so good, difficult to follow and find good usable information without doing some digging.

Riesch's good, very user friendly, easy to follow and a great quick reference guide.

Riesch's not so good, a lot of wrong and or incomplete information that may lead a first time collector down the wrong path.

Anyone have any other thoughts?

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[phil441]

Bill, this is a good continuation of a thread at:
Hammer ID - Military Surplus Collectors Forums
My concern is that we have so much information here that over a long period of time could just go away.

More thoughts????
Phil

[dbarn]

Riesch is a good quick reference for gunshows. While there are errors, it's a useful tool to get a general idea of what's correct.

Ruth's War Baby is a more detailed carbine bible that accurately depicts the history of each prime contactor, shows integration of parts between them, including subcontractors, and a serial number reference to help determine when a particular carbine was made.

Both are in need of new up to date information, however neither one beats the Carbine Club for this purpose. With their continued research, 30+ years of collected data sheets and ongoing information from all over the world, authors of articles such as Bill Ricca, BrianQ, and Newscotlander, the CC is unquestionably your best resource for information regarding USGI carbine collecting. All they ask, is for data on your carbines which requires participation, and a very reasonable yearly fee for dues.

[Maniac]

This is what I have observed having read through both and being a carbine collector:

Ruth's good, lots of good information that is correct and broken down by maker.

Ruth's not so good, difficult to follow and find good usable information without doing some digging.

Riesch's good, very user friendly, easy to follow and a great quick reference guide.

Riesch's not so good, a lot of wrong and or incomplete information that may lead a first time collector down the wrong path.

Anyone have any other thoughts?

I have many M1 carbine reference books including War Baby! (Ruth) and U.S. M1 Carbines Wartime Production 5th edition (Riesch) and find both useful in their own right. Another I like as both a light reference and for care and maintenance is The M1 Carbine OWNER'S GUIDE by Larry Ruth and Scott Duff. In the History and Production section of this book, Ruth uses info from War Baby! in easy to follow graphs relative to production dates as well as info on lineouts, subcontracted receivers, production figures, serial # ranges, etc. Although not sized as a "pocket guide" it's small enough to take into a gun show etc. for a quick reference. The care and maintenance sections alone is enough reason to own this book, IMHO.

[Bill Ricca]

Not only is updating a problem, but there is bogus information in some books. The problem is authors often listen to dealers without confirming the information. I know of two bogus accessories in Ruth's books, made up by dealers.

Once printed in a book, the bogus accessory becomes "Legit", is easier to sell and gains value.

[JimF4M1s (Deceased)]

I find the fun is in the "digging" you mention. Maybe I don't find my answer as quick as I would like, But I find out a lot of other things along the way.

I want another "War Baby" book to come out to dig into.

[DaveHH]

Ruth's book is a book, well researched, well written and it tells a story that is as fascinating as any novel. I can pick up "War Baby" anytime, crack it open to any page and have enjoyable reading. A reader can see and feel the dedication and effort put into the book. Riesch's book is an informative pamphlet by comparison. There's a reason why one demands $75-100 used and the other a $20 bill. I have both. Or should I say all three.

[lambo35]

I just purchased Riesch's 6th edition, looks good so far.Any comments on the new edition by the more experienced collectors?
Chuck.

[Bubba-7]

An example iffy information is Rock-Ola quantities vs. serial numbers. The quantity reported in the "books" for Rock-Ola is the exact total of the first three blocks, 228,500. Very fishy to me. So it would seem there should be no/very few Rock-Ola carbines in the last block. Ruth also said in War Baby that Rock-Ola had additional receivers and was ordered to destory them. However Rock-Ola's serial numbers have been found all the way the END of their last block. Maybe the only manufacturer to do that. They made all of their numbers, less presentation carbines and rejected receivers.
What did they destory, if anything? I have seen a very high number 6.218 Rock-Ola carbine.

[BrianQ]

You’re assuming that every serial number in the first three serial number blocks made it all the way to a completely finished receiver ready for assembly. Even if this happened you’re then assuming every completely finished receiver would have been assembled into a complete carbine in exact serial number sequence. Neither is a very likely scenario. If Rock-Ola re-used serial numbers from scrapped receivers, which is probable to meet contractual obligations, they could conceivable had up to 20,000 additional receivers available when their contract was terminated.