Why is the m1 carbine more expensive than the garand ?

[painter777]

This was asked on another forum.
I'm curious to your thoughts....

The OP asked:
"So I've noticed that the m1 carbine is much more expensive than the m1 garand when the m1 carbine had over 6 million rifles made two million more than the m1 garand (if my numbers are wrong im just going off of Google) but I do know that there were more carbines made than garands so shouldn't the figures be reversed?

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[jimb16]

More varieties for one thing. 10 vs 4. Plus, I believe more were sent to other countries as foreign aid. Not to mention many more went to US government and state agencies. Then there are all of the subvariants. Also they are easier to handle which makes them more desirable for many shooters. I'm sure there are other reasons too, but those are one ones that come to mind immediately.

[Sapper740]

Don't forget the 1.5 million M1 Carbines left behind in Vietnam by us and that doesn't include the numbers taken from the French by the Viet Minh or purchased on worldwide arms markets and smuggled to the Viet Cong by China.

[Singer B]

On top of the 10 contracted manufacturers, there were many subcontractors who made parts for them, thus creating additional collectible variations.

[M94/14]

My guess, (especially after what I observed at the SAR west Gun Show this past December), is that it's partly because of an artificial market created by individuals involved in returning as many examples of Carbines as they can, to how they believe they were when they left that particular manufacturers factory. On the other side of that are the buyers that somehow believe that these "force matched" examples are more desirable than your typical "mix master" and are willing to pay a premium, and more. The fact that it's only original once, doesn't seem to matter to those buyers.
Actually, the very same issue happens to M1 Garands as well, just on a slightly smaller scale due to fewer prime contractors.

I looked at so many Carbines at that show that didn't appear to be anything special (basically good honest mix master shooters), yet had typical Gun Show "Collusion" prices. Anyone who's spent a bit of time looking around at shows will understand what I'm saying. Prices were quite high, and I didn't notice very many Carbines going home with new owners over the three days.

This is just one example, there are of course many other reasons...

[floydthecat]

Mania…..and it’s a great little gun too!

[RCS]

Alot depends on the weapon - original, restored or rebuilt

How many carbines sell in the 5K to 10K price range ? while a nice restored or original 1940 M1 rifle will sell in this price range, same for Winchester 1941 rifles. Gas trap rifles much higher.

Then you have the mix-masters and CMP offerings with new barrels and cmp wood in the $1000 to $1200 price range which is about the same for a mixmaster/rebuilt carbine

[oldfoneguy]

In reality if you add up all production of M1 Garands pre war, wartime and post war the numbers are much closer than expected. With a total of 5,468,772 Garands produced the overall production gap quickly closes up as Garand production continued into 1956 where carbine production ceased at the end of the war.

Overall size and weight, recoil and cost of ammo could be deciding factors as well.

[Timothy-R]

We all know the cost of an item is related to supply and demand, along with other factors. It seems to me that the current supply side of carbines is solely feed from private owners/sellers. Garands are available from private sellers as well but also additional rifles (or rebuilt expert grades) are still entering the market place for purchase from the government via CMP. So the available pool of Garands is still slowly increasing with respect to public availability, but the available carbine population is pretty much fixed anymore.
Not sure how big a lever this has on the relative costs, but it must have some influence. Just my thoughts. Yours?

[painter777]

In the post on the other Forum I'd have to call it a 60 - 40 crowd that preferred the Garand. The Pro Garand guys took the usual shots at the Carbine calling it 'Under powered'. Some of the Pro Carbine guys tried to point out that was because it was being used beyond it's intended use. Basically a no win back and forth that didn't really answer the question. Instead of jumping in to the muck I just posted this:

Start:
All US GI Carbine production was during WWII. The 1st Carbine deliveries were in July of 1942 the last in August of 1945. That's 38 months, 10 Prime makers and likely 1,500+ Sub-Contractors++ So over 6 million Carbines from breaking ground to final deliveries in 38 months. Plus the millions of replacement parts, magazines, ammunition, web gear, etc.

Not getting in to all the variants and sub variants there are the M1 models, M2 Select Fire, M1A1 Paratrooper and the M3 with M2 action and Sniperscope night vision. Even as parts were improved or upgraded no matter the maker, early part or newer part they were made to be interchangeable to fit any model. Every War time part big enough to mark had the Sub-Contractors Code and Prime makers code stamped on it. This was so it could be traced back if there was a problem, Think 'Recall'. Example: EW on a Safety. The E was the Sub Eaton Pond, The W was Winchester, EW, Eaton Pond Safety made for the Prime maker: Winchester.

The M1 Carbine was the 1st US service rifle designed for the use of Non corrosive primer ammunition. The Garand has 3 times the power of a Carbine round. While a Carbine round has 2x the power of a Thompson .45ACP has. For the troops the Carbine was designed for this meant a lot more ammo could be transported with less effort at less cost to Ordnance.

This many US service rifles being built along with the companies that built them, some from the ground up in such a short time, with many Subs being small companies is historic. The study of the markings and the timelines we find interesting. Many of us had Family that were issued Carbines or we grew up shooting them. If Audie Murphy was Happy with his. Enough said on my part. To each and all, Just enjoy your collecting while you can. End