No4 MK1/2 questions

[WanderingKiwi]

I am getting to know my new (to me) No4. If anyone can add some info related to the markings I would appreciate it.


In addition, it is marked as Fulton Regulated and, when I dismantled it to take a closer look I found there was no collar under the main screw. I asked Fulton and they responded that this would be correct as they assembled it to bear on the wood. Anyone seen this in other rifles? I have zero cause to doubt their assertion but I thought others here may have seen it before.

Thanks!

[Peter Laidler]

With the greatest respect to Fultons and their explanation that the absence of the collar under the woodwork was so that the body would bear on the wood is based on fuzzy logic! The purpose of the collar is to ENSURE that the body seated firmly on the wood but at the same time, the SCREW, trigger guard front could be really tightened up without UNDULY crushing the wood. The arrow in a U indicates to me a South African barrel. There is a lot of patching and infilling of the fore-end and I suspect that this was all part of the regulated process.

Correct fore-end fitting was a mystic art, learned by apprentices over many months. And if you got it wrong, you chiselled out the errors, patched the fore-end and started again!

As it is a T spec rifle (?????) I would be asking myself why the bedding criteria for sniper rifles was NEVER changed from day 1.

I'm minded to suggest that this thread would be better placed in the Lee Enfield section where you'll probably gate more and moire reliable info coming forward

Peter, ex Armourer formerly based at NDOD Ngaruawahia, Waiouru and a bit at Papakura!

[WanderingKiwi]

With the greatest respect to Fultons and their explanation that the absence of the collar under the woodwork was so that the body would bear on the wood is based on fuzzy logic! The purpose of the collar is to ENSURE that the body seated firmly on the wood but at the same time, the SCREW, trigger guard front could be really tightened up without UNDULY crushing the wood. The arrow in a U indicates to me a South African barrel. There is a lot of patching and infilling of the fore-end and I suspect that this was all part of the regulated process.

Correct fore-end fitting was a mystic art, learned by apprentices over many months. And if you got it wrong, you chiselled out the errors, patched the fore-end and started again!

As it is a T spec rifle (?????) I would be asking myself why the bedding criteria for sniper rifles was NEVER changed from day 1.

I'm minded to suggest that this thread would be better placed in the Lee Enfield section where you'll probably gate more and moire reliable info coming forward

Peter, ex Armourer formerly based at NDOD Ngaruawahia, Waiouru and a bit at Papakura!

Thank you Peter, your input is appreciated. I shall try to find a collar of suitable length and install it. The identification of a South African barrel is interesting, I will have to look into that as I have no info on these. I will also try the Enfield section.

Cheers

[WanderingKiwi]

With the greatest respect to Fultons and their explanation that the absence of the collar under the woodwork was so that the body would bear on the wood is based on fuzzy logic! The purpose of the collar is to ENSURE that the body seated firmly on the wood but at the same time, the SCREW, trigger guard front could be really tightened up without UNDULY crushing the wood. The arrow in a U indicates to me a South African barrel. There is a lot of patching and infilling of the fore-end and I suspect that this was all part of the regulated process.

Correct fore-end fitting was a mystic art, learned by apprentices over many months. And if you got it wrong, you chiselled out the errors, patched the fore-end and started again!

As it is a T spec rifle (?????) I would be asking myself why the bedding criteria for sniper rifles was NEVER changed from day 1.

I'm minded to suggest that this thread would be better placed in the Lee Enfield section where you'll probably gate more and moire reliable info coming forward

Peter, ex Armourer formerly based at NDOD Ngaruawahia, Waiouru and a bit at Papakura!

Hey Peter, where would I find information on establishing the length of the collar - once I get on to fit?
Thanks

Ian

[Peter Laidler]

Ah, yes. The length of the collar. Good question. This is what I was traught and used to use.

Fit the forend properly, as per the EMER but WITHOUT the collar initially, making sure that you only put sufficient loading onto the front trigger guard screw to get the body and barrel seated correctly.
When all fitted perfectly, NOW is the time to use the collar. Count the EXACT amount of turns on the front trigger guard screw it takes to get to the correct fit you have already achieved.

Insert the over-length collar and take a small amount off the collar each tome, preferably in a lathe, until the screw brings the trigger guard hard down on the collar. Now the forend is fitted correctly and the screw is down hadd on the trigger guard and on the collar and tight into the body.

Take apart and insert the spring, screw, front trigger guard and tighten up. Occasionally I would see a small stake mark in the trigger guard that secured the screw in place. Don't forget that we had a full tray of assorted collars and you'd always find one there that was dead right. On the other hand, it was always a good excuse to amble over to the machine shop and have a chat to the fitters and have a brew while you were there and amble back in time for the lunch break.........

Someone is going to ask about the PLATE, trigger guard as used on the L42 and some L39 fore-ends that didn't need a collar.. Good question. That was a modification that was in place to extend the life of well used (and not so well used, but out-of spec.....) fore-ends
If there was a better fit for better accuracy then the spec for the No4T, then I never heard of it

[WanderingKiwi]

Ah, must be nice to have a tray of parts to choose from! I have been waiting 3 weeks for 2 collars to arrive from the UK! Hopefully one of them will be long enough to meet my needs. Thanks for taking the time to respond in so much detail. I think I understand it - perhaps other than how you ‘only put sufficient loading onto the front trigger guard screw to get the body and barrel seated correctly’. Next step…find a copy of the EMER!!!

[Peter Laidler]

EMER......., speak to Brian at BDL Ltd in SC. He is on this forum. The Armourers bible