Want to borrow - Tools, No.32 Sighting Telescope Mk 2 "tongs"

[Maple_Leaf_Eh]

I want to borrow a set of tongs for the No.32 telescope, what the literature calls Tools Sighting Telescope Mk 2. The first pattern tool is small enough to fit in the palm of the hand. I've got one and the functionality is dubious. The replacement was published as drawings, and neither Ordnance Corps in UK or CA got around to issuing the actual tool. Workshops were instructed to fabricate what they needed. As I go down the rabbit hole to learning to adjust (and not screw up) the cross hairs, I'd like to try what the armourers would have used.

Colin McGregor Stevens' extensive No.4(T) site posts Jan 1945 drawings which resemble the British drawings published in Peter Laidler's books. However, the phrase fabricated means it was shop made to the drawings, not factory made and issued from central stores.

The scope in question has been inspected and approved by Warren. I've shot it enough to have confidence. However, the four parts of the range and deflection drums are flying together under friction, and after zeroing the indicators are not pointed on 0, but elsewhere. The Mk 2 tool holds the Lead Screw and the knurled disk in place while other adjustments are made. Two functions this simple mortal has trouble doing without slippage. To recover from upsetting the entire dial is firing another box of .303 FMJ and twisting knobs.

Therefore, if anyone has a set of tongs they aren't using I'd like to borrow them for a few weeks. The return spring will be strong, and I'll pay insured shipping both directions to Canada. PM me please.

[Alan de Enfield]

I take it that the No1 Mk1 are of no interest ?
I paid more for this that some rifles :









Apparently very few were made and the ones that survived are in the hens-teeth area.
Reports suggested they never worked very well and, unless you had 5 hands, they were unusable.

Good idea at the time !

[Maple_Leaf_Eh]

At the risk of challenging our knowledgeable and most generous friend Peter, I think the Mk 2 tongs have been misrepresented. There are two camps of opinions, and the technicians have spoken louder than the engineers. The Ordnance departments in Canada and UK would not have gone to the trouble to publish two different sets of fabrication drawings if the tongs didn't serve a purpose. However, just about all we know about the tongs is from Peter's point of view.

Everyone agrees that four hands on the scope and one on the rifle are necessary. As I read the drawings, the action of the Mk 2 tongs freezes the lead screw and the disk. That's all. The locking nut can then be loosened or tightened. There is a flat key with 90-deg prongs for that. Peter sketches both in the little green book, and Clive Law has a photo of tongs and a key in "Without Warning". As I read the drawings, the two actions as necessary to confidently turn the scales to line up with the indicator and snug up the locking collar. The tongs replace the tenuous grip on moving parts with several hands for the initial and final steps of zeroing. A controversial tool for two small motions, or perhaps from the other perspective, a way to avoid repeating all the previous adjustments. Therefore, I'd like to borrow someone's tongs to confirm my observation and to advance the body of No.32 scope knowledge.

For the record, the No.4 (T) and No.32 in question held within a 4-inch scoring ring for ten shots at 100yds to get an HPS at a recent milsurp match. It can perform, but the indicator still isn't lined up on Ø.

---------- Post added at 01:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:00 PM ----------

At the risk of challenging our knowledgeable and most generous friend Peter, I think the Mk 2 tongs have been misrepresented. There are two camps of opinions, and the technicians have spoken louder than the engineers. The Ordnance departments in Canada and UK would not have gone to the trouble to publish two different sets of fabrication drawings if the tongs didn't serve a purpose. However, just about all we know about the tongs is from Peter's point of view.

Everyone agrees that four hands on the scope and one on the rifle are necessary. As I read the drawings, the action of the Mk 2 tongs freezes the lead screw and the disk. That's all. The locking nut can then be loosened or tightened. There is a flat key with 90-deg prongs for that. Peter sketches both in the little green book, and Clive Law has a photo of tongs and a key in "Without Warning". As I read the drawings, the two actions as necessary to confidently turn the scales to line up with the indicator and snug up the locking collar. The tongs replace the tenuous grip on moving parts with several hands for the initial and final steps of zeroing. A controversial tool for two small motions, or perhaps from the other perspective, a way to avoid repeating all the previous adjustments. Therefore, I'd like to borrow someone's tongs to confirm my observation and to advance the body of No.32 scope knowledge.

For the record, the No.4 (T) and No.32 in question held within a 4-inch scoring ring for ten shots at 100yds to get an HPS at a recent milsurp match. It can perform, but the indicator still isn't lined up on Ø.

[Maple_Leaf_Eh]

At the risk of challenging our knowledgeable and most generous friend Peter, I think the Mk 2 tongs have been misrepresented. There are two camps of opinions, and the technicians have spoken louder than the engineers. The Ordnance departments in Canada and UK would not have gone to the trouble to publish two different sets of fabrication drawings if the tongs didn't serve a purpose. However, just about all we know about the tongs is from Peter's point of view.

Everyone agrees that four hands on the scope and one on the rifle are necessary. As I read the drawings, the action of the Mk 2 tongs freezes the lead screw and the disk. That's all. The locking nut can then be loosened or tightened. There is a flat key with 90-deg prongs for that. Peter sketches both in the little green book, and Clive Law has a photo of tongs and a key in "Without Warning". As I read the drawings, the two actions as necessary to confidently turn the scales to line up with the indicator and snug up the locking collar. The tongs replace the tenuous grip on moving parts with several hands for the initial and final steps of zeroing. A controversial tool for two small motions, or perhaps from the other perspective, a way to avoid repeating all the previous adjustments. Therefore, I'd like to borrow someone's tongs to confirm my observation and to advance the body of No.32 scope knowledge.

For the record, the No.4 (T) and No.32 in question held within a 4-inch scoring ring for ten shots at 100yds to get an HPS at a recent milsurp match. It can perform, but the indicator still isn't lined up on Ø.

[Maple_Leaf_Eh]

There were server errors as I was posting. I will edit and delete posts as I find the buttons.

[Peter Laidler]

The tong tools were useless, please believe me.

Here's what happened in the REAL world. Sniper with Mk2 (or 1 but didn't see many...) on zeroing range, at 400 yard. Roughly boresighted in. 2 warmers into the bank and 5 at the target. Adjust COMPLETE DRUM to bring MPI of group onto the point of aim. With me so far.......?
Regardless of range or azimuth/deflection reading, HOLD CENTRE REVERSE SCREWDRIVER slot in the lead screw steady with forked screwdriver tool. Rotate drum to show 4. *
Do the same with the deflection. Ask fellow sniper or Armourer to hold rifle if you need a bit of help.
Next, a check shoot , 5 rounds at 400 yards with range drum now set to 4 and deflection set to 0

*The outer forked lead screw locking ring need only be tight enough to hold the lead screw. Don't tighten it as if it were a jumbo jet wheel nut.

See...... No mention of the pliers. All you really SHOULD need is the leas screw forked screwdriver. I have had mine for 50 years and it's still going strong