Will the AR-15 be fondly remembered like the Garand?

[John Kepler]

John,yes your classic auto's would draw attention,just as a GI 45 or M1 carbine or 98k because they are all classics.You prove my point.

Pull in with a brand-new Ferrari and park it between your Vette and my Buick. and we'd be totally ignored! Pull out your "old iron"....I'll be there with my RPA Palma rifle....guess what most people are going to want to look at! "New" and "interesting" aren't mutually exclusive!

Why would I clean a rifle at the range? Stupid question.I guess you were not trained proberly

You've never met my father or grandfather, so you have little basis for your attempted insults.

How many have gone home and do not clean their rifle till the next day or forget until the next shooting match.I've seen it many times.

NEVER by me! You clean firearms in a CONTROLLED environment whenever possible. That way you do an effective, thorough job without b!tching anything up, losing parts, or accumulating dirt and grit in things you are trying to get clean. Like I said the first time, cleaning at the range if you have alternatives is like washing your clothes in a cesspool!

And as far as the old M16 being different than the new breed. What's the difference? A new barrel, different sights and different handguard. Everything else is still interchangeable

Different upper receiver, TOTALLY different trigger....yep, other than the barrel, receiver, trigger, most of the stock, and sights....they's 'zactly the same!

[1886nut]

I was born when the Vietnam war was in its last stages, and I still find US issue long guns from the trapdoor to the M-14 to be some of the most beautifully constructed and facinating pieces of machinery / history one could own. I understand the "cool" factor of having an AR with all kinds of gadgets on it that is as close as possible to a "real" M4 or M-16A2, but I guess I just grew out of that. Theres no question the 5.56 is easier to shoot for most people, but to me, theres nothing like the feeling of 8 or 9 pounds of solid near tooling grade steel and walnut in your hands. Everytime I've shouldered one of Stoners rattling, pinned, aluminum wonders, I always have this slight feeling (unjustified, I know) in the back of my head that its going to fall apart when I squeeze the trigger. Picking up a Garand or 1903 Spirngfield gives a feeling of solidity and instills confidence, at least for me. The M-1 and M-14 are simple guns to understand and to work on / maintain for someone of average mechanical competance and care. So don't let these OFC members tell you us young guys dont appreciate the Garand


Since few civilians will ever own a "real" M16 or M4, I dont think it will ever acheive the iconic status of the Garand. I thinks its status will be "legendary "along the lines of the Winchester 94 or the Remington 870 for its shear familiarity.

[John Sukey (Deceased)]

The MOST IMPORTANT thing is your son is HOME!

[TDH]

Mmmm.... Boys will be boys and always argue about the size and value of their toys.

In avocational shooting, there's room for aesthetics and absolute accuracy. If your gig is competition, no problem - go for the rocket rifle and its greater accuracy. They do have their own cache'. If you like furniture and how a classic rifle "groks"*, go for another era.

We are allowed differences in taste and emphasis. We are not the Borg.

Bob

* grok: to understand intuitively or by empathy; to establish rapport with

And yes I do GROK VMS

[TDH]

Now for my 2 cents for what ever it is worth. I own o3's, an M1, even a carbine an M1A and an AK clone. I do not own a mouse gun. I will not say they are not accurate. I understand they can be. I personally do not care much for the platform and especially do not care for the calibre. A .22 should be used on varmits not battlefields. The arguement was made you could carry more ammo. Yes you could and it took more ammo to kill that feller that was a trying to kill you. With the .30 you could shoot through the tree he was hiding behind not so the .22. The 7.62X39 IMHO is close to a perfect battle cartridge. Heavier bullet, lower recoil and short action. It fit the rifle it was designed for. It was and is reliable but is not a tack driver. In the beginning the Matty Mattel was NOT reliable. It was made by the low bidder. Today you still have to keep it super clean (try it in a sand box)(or a jungle). I lost several friends when their plastic fantastic failed at a critical time.

In time of need give me a solid reliable battle rifle with a good cartridge. Remember that there are 3 things in combat that get light all too quickly. Food water and ammo. So carry as much as you can.

Now to answer the original question. By those that never carried a solid rifle into combat it probably will be. Will it deserve it? That's for each man to say.

[polska]

John,you crack me up.What does a palma rifle have in common with an M16?What does a new Ferrari have in common with the autos we are talking about?In both examples you go from apples to oranges.
I also never mentioned your family as I have no idea who taught you your firearm maintance,but it sounds like it is lacking.
To clean a 1903 you just have to pull the bolt out and on a M1 you can use a snake, no parts to remove.I bet there are all types of little parts on that poodle shooter.What color is your spacegun lite blue or pink?

[Bob Womack]

Alright guys, the personal bashing must stop. Personal attacks are not allowed.

Bob

[limazulu]

I don't know if this question has been addressed yet, but as our military decides whether it will be H+K or FN or someone else that provide replacements for M-16/M-4, in your opinion, will the M-16/AR-15 be as fondly remembered as the Garand? I was reading the article in American Rifleman about the SCAR, and it got me wondering?

"Fondly remembered" has less to do with which one is more competitively accurate or which carries more rounds. Complainers against the M16 action seem to forget how the Garand action would freeze up in wintry climates.

The Garand is remembered because it was used in WWII. WWII is fondly remembered as a just cause.

The M16 is remembered for Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Desert Storm and our current battles. They may have been (and are) just causes but they just weren't (and aren't) the same as WWII.

I like the Garand for several reasons. It's well balanced and recoil is light for that caliber round. The history of invention is in the Garand. And I met one of John Garands sons and had a nice chat about his Dad.

I like the AR15 which, isn't the same as the M16, because it gives me higher scores when I shoot service rifle competitions. As far as cleaning after each shoot. Why would you want to start a shooting competition with a green barrel?