Remember that bit about oiling bullets?

[whiterider]

From a post by Thunderbox....

"So a few points to note:

1. Service ammunition was assumed to be oiled. (Cleaning and oiling ammunition was in fact a standard battle preparation activity);"


????? Cleaning (fair enough) but OILING ammunition in battle preparation???? where the heck did you get that one from???

[Alan de Enfield]

I've seen posts about a similar problem of laquered 7.62x51 cases, these were a particular German lot headstamped MEN ..."[/url]

I use the NATO 7.62 German "MEN" ammunition all of the time (Its what both my local gunshop and my local 'range' have). I have fired "quite a lot" and can assure you that they are NOT lacquer coated cases

[Thunderbox]

From a post by Thunderbox....

"So a few points to note:

1. Service ammunition was assumed to be oiled. (Cleaning and oiling ammunition was in fact a standard battle preparation activity);"


????? Cleaning (fair enough) but OILING ammunition in battle preparation???? where the heck did you get that one from???

Oiling as in wiping the rounds with the same oily flannelette that the soldiers used to wipe the chargers and the rifle internals. When issued bandoleer ammo, they'd strip the rounds out, loosen the chargers (if necessary) and ensure the rounds were free-running. Soldiers do the same - even today - if they've been carrying unboxed ammo for some time that has got wet or dirty.

[whiterider]

....especially about something as potentially dangerous as the statement about 'oiling ammunition' Its a little different from wiping it over and cleaning off any mud, dust etc with a piece of forbytwo.....

It could lead to some readers of our forum who aren't well informed to actually 'oil' their ammunition...and we all know....(or should know) that it will cause additionally stress to be placed on the bolt face, locking lugs etc....(thats why some 'proof' rounds are required to be oiled...

[Alfred]

I use the NATO 7.62 German "MEN" ammunition all of the time (Its what both my local gunshop and my local 'range' have). I have fired "quite a lot" and can assure you that they are NOT lacquer coated cases

Probably not the same lot or years of manufacture.
Also surplus ammo is often surplus because the particular lot is found not to be suitable for service for some reason or another.
Assuming that every lot of ammo will give the same results is not wise. Even if they met specs when they left the factory, problems in service would lead to some lots being condemned and sold off. Sticky cases would not be enough to result in a destruction of the lot.
From Janes, on the 7.62X51

The case is rimless and bottlenecked, brass or lacquered steel, Berdan or Boxer primed.

The tests on oiled cases were of cases left to dry for differing times. I suppose to find a limit on safe drying time after cleaning and before using.

When oil or water gathered at the case mouth pressure went up, they determined this by the slight recorded increase in velocity.
In part this was attributed to the oils forming a short lived gas seal as the bullet left the case, reducing blowby.

[Edward Horton]

I worked over 35 years at a military overhaul and repair depot with the last 25 years as an inspector and the Tech Manual library was just a few doors down from my office. Being an avid reloader I read every manual the U.S. Military had relating to small arms. The U.S. Military does NOT oil any small arms ammunition or recommend oiling the chamber on ANY of its small arms.

Below is a very good article on:
Rifle Chamber Finish & Friction Effects on Bolt Load and Case Head Thinning.
FEA Calculations done with LS-DYNA

Rifle Chamber Finish & Friction Effects on Bolt Load and Case Head Thinning Calculations done with LS-DYNA

Our surplus Enfields have seen a lot of miles and the inspection with care and cleaning should be a high priority before shooting.

You can clean your Enfield chamber with a 20 gauge shotgun cleaning mop attached to a small hand held drill. Use a light oil with J&B bore paste on the mop to remove any surface contaminates in the chamber. J&B bore paste is like tooth paste BUT the grit in the paste is much softer than the steel the barrel is made from and it will NOT harm the chamber or bore.

The Enfield rifle was proof pressure tested using two high pressure proof rounds, one dry proof cartridge to proof pressure test the barrel/chamber and one oiled proof round to seat the bolt locking lugs and bolt head. After firing both proof rounds the rifle was checked with a .067 head space gauge and if the bolt closed on the .067 gauge the rifle failed proof testing.

At no time to the best of my knowledge has any U.S. small arms manufacture civilian or military ever used “oiled” proof rounds in the proof testing our American small arms. I'm NOT criticizing this British proofing method or why the British used this procedure, I'm simply stating the American “rebels” never used this system.

I also agree with Thunderbox that military weapons are made far stronger than their civilian counterparts, BUT there is absolutly NO need for anyone to oil their cartridges and place twice the stress and strain on any of our prized Enfield Rifles.

[jmoore]

Interesting article, wish these graphs were better labled, hard to tell if they apply to the preceding or following text. The most pertinent condition not investigated is that of the oiled AND rough chamber which probably best duplicates oily rounds in a milsurp.

Mind you, I don't advocate oiling rounds either, unless you're supposed to! (Japanese MG's of certain types and the common Pedersen rifle come to mind.)

[Alfred]

When the testing on oiled cartridges described by Reynolds was being done, they'd begun greasing the guns with Mineral Jelly to hold down rust, and Rangoon oil as a CLP for moving parts.
Tests were run with Cartridges dipped in Rangoon Oil and allowed to dry for two hours, then dipped and allowed to drain for one minute, then dipped and inserted directly into the chamber.
They then tested dry cases with a ring of Mineral Jelly around the neck, I suppose to mimic a chamber neck still partly greasey while the chamber had been roughly swabbed out in a hurry.

Results are found on page 95 of the Lee Enfield Book.

PS
Pederson used a patented dry lubed case.

Due to corrosion cracking of cases exposed to ammonia vapors in stables and in India in the Monsoon season I suspect lightly oiling cases was necessary to protect bare brass.